PPC Pitfalls?

[myvv]

In a few weeks I'll be launching my new ecommerce site and plan to rely heavily on PPC. I've read alot about click fraud and bid management but I'm wondering in your experience what you've found to be the top issues with PPC? What would be your advice and issues to watch out for with PPC? Thanks guys :-)

[NFFC]

>advice and issues to watch out for with PPC

Don't rely heavily on PPC.

To be a real sucess you need a much broader approuch, look at PPC as just one link in the chain.

[greenleaves]

PPC Pitfalls?

The number one pitfall I have seen is people not tracking their campaigns properly. Be on top of your campaigns, and tweek them constantly is the best advice I can think of. Track everything you can. And test (depending on your budget) different PPCs with different keywords, what works for one industry may not work for another. HTH

[cline]

PPC bids do not always increase. Eventually the markets come to an equilibrium. The bids usually overshoot, and then fall back once the bidders realize that they are losing sackfuls of money.

Many businesses are successful with just PPC as a marketing strategy. I cannot recommend PPC-only as a long-term strategy, but it's an excellent one for start up to test whether you can actually get customers.

[andrewgoodman]

I find it rather tedious that a sincere question about PPC in the PPC area of the forum is used to bash PPC.

Can't we just talk about the question?

Key pitfalls can include:

- not having a handle on success metrics going in
- poor campaign organization
- not tracking post-click conversions
- overbidding
- underbidding
- weak keyword research / insufficient keyword discovery
- on the flipside, keyword research overkill
- in general, getting priorities messed up, overemphasizing small details
- misunderstanding content targeting
- not knowing which "default" settings to avoid
- having keywords disabled for low CTR
- being dogmatic about #1 ad position / ego bidding
- not understanding matching options
- not understanding budgeting options
- not understanding ad rotation / split-testing
- poor-converting site (multifaceted problem)
- taking users to the wrong landing page(s)
- editorial policies, failure to appeal poor decisions at Ov. / Goog.
- listening to people who do not specialize in PPC
- wasting time/$ on tertiary PPC engines without fully maximizing the first (Overture, Google) and second (FindWhat) tiers
- not dayparting where appropriate
- dayparting where inappropriate
- letting bid management tools wag the dog inappropriately
- assigning the job to a webmaster who doesn't seem to be interested in marketing issues
- letting that webmaster install the stats program of his choice rather than installing the analytics software that is best for the job

As you can see, there is a lot to know here and I'm just scratching the surface. The upside is clear: you control the copy, control the pace of spend, and have a clearly measurable campaign that is like a lead generation machine that is yours to keep. Sure, you need a mix of methods, but online, paid search is one of the only truly effective methods. All those $billions$ being spent are not wrong.

Good luck.

[projectphp]

The biggest pitfall is lack of understanding of all kinds. The cost of click fraud is negligible compare to the lost opportunity cost of a poorly thought out business and website.

The three vital issues are tracking, tracking and tracking. Know what traffic comes in, from where, using what words, where it goes and what result you get. Then ensure that you tweak all elements along the way, i.e. bids, keywords, adcopy, landing pages, links, headings, usability and calls to action. An improvement in any of these areas can be huge, and the post click stuff is vital, e.g. you get a visitor, do they do what you want them to?

PPC is a great marketing tool, make sure you have the site to match it!

[MrMackin]

imo
Rule #1
Before starting a PPC campaign on a product or service, negotiate a better commission deal DIRECTLY with a merchant that insures that you will be paid more than the majority of the publishers you will be bidding against.

[Marcia]

Original post
plan to rely heavily on PPC. I've read alot about click fraud and bid management but I'm wondering in your experience what you've found to be the top issues with PPC? What would be your advice and issues to watch out for with PPC? Thanks guys :-)

fathom
andrewgoodman - you wrote a comprehensive list of loosely defined considerations,

See, now I'm confused about what the problem could possibly be; I just don't see one. myvv clearly said he plans to rely heavily on PPC - and asked what the *top issues* are, and what to watch out for.

andrewgoodman gave a comprehensive reply that responded directly and clearly to *exactly* what was being asked for by the member in the first post. Sorry, but I fail to see any problem whatsoever with Andrew's post - I personally find it very helpful, clear and easy to understand.

[Marcia]

fathom:
tedious
It was specifically stated that bashing was being referred to. Personally, I find threads veering off topic tedious.

andrewgoodman
I find it rather tedious that a sincere question about PPC in the PPC area of the forum is used to bash PPC.
See? If that is what the gentleman perceived, it's simply a matter of perception and nothing more.

andrewgoodman
Can't we just talk about the question?
Regardless of what anyone else's motivations may be - that is exactly what I perceive Andrew's comment to be intended for - to get the thread, which had veered, back on the topic, directly talking about the member's questions.

fathom:
I added some drama!
Which, with all due respect, could appear to be ego-driven - and at the very least is at the expense of the original poster, taking the thread off-topic.

fathom:
Please edit your bashing comment & delete this post.
I fail to see the point of making a post and demanding that it be removed. It's a bit controlling for my taste, to be perfectly honest. It's really unnecessary as well - what we don't want posted in public should be taken to PM.

People are entitled to their perceptions, and Andrew is no exception. LOL - no thought police have been appointed that I'm aware of.

That said...

Getting back to the major concern as expressed in the original post, which was superbly addressed, what are the methods of safeguard against click fraud? It is a major issue now, and coming more and more to public attention.

[andrewgoodman]

Yep, it was just my opinion, that's all. Not as a moderator, just as a guy with a keyboard. I tend to get impatient on the subject of PPC because I hear aspects of it being discredited frequently, and that just doesn't seem fair in a thread that asks about "PPC pitfalls." Talking about "what to watch out for" doesn't mean someone with an ax to grind should come in and say "don't rely on PPC." That's just not helpful.

By "discredited," I mean the emphasis on "click fraud" and other "scary" aspects of PPC that always seem to get turned back around to "hey, by the way, PPC ain't all that, you know you need to optimize your site for SE's too..."

IMHO, that's veering off topic, and it constantly happens on these boards for self-serving reasons. Just as I might veer back towards PPC for similar reasons.

This is Search Engine Watch forums -- home of SEO professionals. I think the point that SEO is important is basically a constant theme here, so why return to it on a thread about PPC?

It was just my view. Not as a "mod," but as a person who believes in free speech, and occasionally going off half-****ed (within forum rules of course).

Click fraud is a separate topic. I don't care to comment on it at this time, as I believe it's completely overemphasized in the current discourse. One way to avoid it is to see the above suggestions - have clear success metrics going in and choose your analytics software carefully. Then again, if folks want to raise indiscriminate alarm bells about click fraud, this suits my clients fine. They'll have fewer competitors to bid against.

On bid management, this could be a very long discussion. But ask yourself why on certain popular terms nowadays, bids for #5 position are approximately 2X on Overture what they are on Google. Could it be the indiscriminate use of bid management tools that causes irrational outcomes like bidding wars for #1 spot, even #2 and #5-7, up to unsustainable dollar amounts per click? Bid management is a good idea in principle, but one gets the feeling that currently certain techniques and tools are being misused by many.

Anyway, the question was very general. I'm better at solving specific problems.

[NFFC]

>Talking about "what to watch out for" doesn't mean someone with an ax to grind should come in and say "don't rely on PPC." That's just not helpful.

I'm going to assume that was aimed at me.

For the record I said "Don't rely *heavily* on PPC".

It might be we have a disconnect in the way we have both read the question. I think you saw "PPC", I saw "In a few weeks I'll be launching my new ecommerce site".

As someone involved in runing ecommerce websites and selling neither SEO nor PPC services my best advise would be "Don't rely heavily on PPC".

>n your experience what you've found to be the top issues with PPC?

Don't get me wrong PPC is a very useful tool but the barrier to entry is just too low for it to be *the* major plank of an ecommerce sites marketing push.

>IMHO, that's veering off topic, and it constantly happens on these boards for self-serving reasons.

I agree.

[Marcia]

NFFC
For the record I said "Don't rely *heavily* on PPC".
Well don't get your knickers all in a was over it NFFC, we both know enough and are tough enough not to be over-sensitive with forum posts, it's too easy to misinterpret. To borrow one of Jills words, it's "silly."

NFFC
As someone involved in runing ecommerce websites and selling neither SEO nor PPC services my best advise would be "Don't rely heavily on PPC".
Well I know that and I've always been envious of your design skills. You have no personal stake or agenda, just personal interest. But we all know that not all of us around are playing the same game - that's a given.

NFFC
Don't get me wrong PPC is a very useful tool but the barrier to entry is just too low for it to be *the* major plank of an ecommerce sites marketing push.
I've been an 'organic purist" simply because that's how it ended up in most cases, when looking at cost and potential ROI. But not a purist as a "religion" - I've always recognized the value of PPC as at least a sometimes essential component in an integrated marketing plan. There are some who relyl on it totally, but that doesn't apply in all cases as being economically feasible long term. Not when clicks are over $4 each and the ROI can't justify because of the level of margin for the products. Having worked in accounting, that I understand perfectly well - the application to PPC is more complex.

It hasn't been an issue of choice, just how the cards fell - but from my viewpoint, I don't need my head fuzzed up with anything complicated at this point - what I find of most value is an outline of the basics - that gives a foundation for going further step by step. Hence, my personal appreciation for ordered and unordered lists that lay down a foundation that can be built on, as ready.

What I personally need from you NFFC is clarification on what you mean when referring to the barrier to entry being too low. That I'm puzzled about.

>>IMHO, that's veering off topic, and it constantly happens on these boards for self-serving reasons.

>>I agree.
I also totally agree. In fact, to borrow another of Jill's words, imho it's "stinky."

[NFFC]

>What I personally need from you NFFC is clarification on what you mean when referring to the barrier to entry being too low. That I'm puzzled about.

I suppose the best way I can put is thus:

In the real results the danger comes from people who are smarter than you, in the PPC game the danger comes from people dumber than you. I can work with smarter, and take my thrashings allbeit with twisted undergarments :), dumb is hard to compete against though.

That make sense?

[tomslick]

myvv,

Make sure that you are not directing all of your PPC traffic to your homepage. Sending the traffic to more relevant pages on your site may increase conversions.

[AussieWebmaster]

PPC Pitfalls?

The number one pitfall I have seen is people not tracking their campaigns properly. Be on top of your campaigns, and tweek them constantly is the best advice I can think of. Track everything you can. And test (depending on your budget) different PPCs with different keywords, what works for one industry may not work for another. HTH
agree 100% and for that matter what works at one PPC engine may not at another. but to know any of this you must have thorough tracking.

[mcanerin]

MOD NOTE

I just removed several posts that had been self edited by the poster to remove the original information, hence the comments above relating to PPC that seem to be responding to posts that were not there.

I removed the posts as a houskeeping measure - the information in them was already gone when I logged in this morning.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.....

Ian

[Opie1Canopie]

I'll add a point that expands on what has been stated, although I have to first say that Andrew's post provided excellent information - in fact I'm tempted to hang the list up as a reminder.

One thing I've learned the hard way is understanding the competition in a given space and setting realistic goals based upon your limitations - those being budget, content, exact relevancy etc.

While I believe you can make PPC work with almost any budget, it can become quite a challenge for highly competitive keywords/phrases, if you go into it with the wrong expectations - or too lofty of goals. If you understand your position in the market as much as possible before jumping in, you can set better expectations and be able to optmize the campaign more effectively.

This may be an obvious factor for most of you, but it was a big lesson I learned on a recent project...

Opie1

[Chris Boggs]

Many of the major issues to watch out for have been covered aptly by others within this discussion. But better late than never I guess, and I am curious as to whether people will agree with me or not :D

It has been said that "keyword research overkill" is a possibility, but IMO the number one issue with ALL marketing is research. The more you do, the better off you will be. Since you do not have any personal data yet, you can estimate competition costs for your target keywords. As an example, for Overture, I use the view bids tool and estimate expense based on current CPC and cost for the top position, multiplied by a safe click-through rate of about 12-15% for #1 and lower for each other position. I look at these numbers and then ask myself how the competitor is justifying this expense. The more being spent, the better I feel about a particular keyword, usually. Of course this also brings in the analysis of the calls to action or landing pages used by the bidders, and so forth...

Click fraud can be an issue but you shouldn't be constantly worried about it. Based on the budget you are targeting, I would invest in appropriate tracking software to ensure that Google/Overture's numbers jive. If you are buying lots and lots of keywords, an advanced system that measures visitor behavior will be more helpful. This will allow you to see if a large portion of Overture or Google clicks seem shady. It has not happened to me yet, but I have heard of people getting money back when they presented a fair argument to the PPC provider.

If you are planning on bidding for only a couple hundred kw's or so, you should be able to tell from the PPC-provider ROI trackers if things are working out. You are lucky that you are doing this for an e-commerce setup because it is certainly easier to measure online conversions than offline conversions.

Good point was made about testing. A and B landing pages are helpful, and so are testing different Titles and Descriptions. Just remember to actually track your data instead of just "feeling" one page is doing better than another.

Don't simply ignore the ROI tracking tools offered by Google and Overture. They work pretty well and are better than nothing.

Accept that you will get some "Lookie-Lou" clicks the first couple of weeks. I often suggest going-in at number two or three instead of one. This will allow the dust to settle a little easier after the two-three week average position-jostling.

Like others said: this stuff works. I agree to stay only with tier one (G and Y) to start. If your product is B2B I would strongly suggest looking into Business.com as well.

Give it time. Stick to your test budget. Be prepared for AdWords to cost on average 2-3 times at least what Overture costs, but to yield more clicks...

[grnidone]

Metrics is key. Metrics is key. Metrics is key.

You need to be able to go from the term you purchased all the way through to the shopping cart or lead. Anything less and you are flying blind.

I like to have a report sorta like this:

term typed cpc entity date time purchases amount

What that report tells you is the term you bought, what the user actually typed in, which search entity they used -- google, overture etc -- , the date, time, what they purchased and how much they paid. And if you get real slick, you'll put all that into a database so you have long range information. You can never have too many metrics, *but* you have to know how to read them.

I've also noticed that if you are starting a new campaign, you want to let it ride for a couple of weeks before you make drastic changes. You need a baseline before you can see what needs to change.

I have to agree with others in this post: I do not see PPC as the only way to do things, but as part of the whole. Anytime you can make someone purchase something off your site without being charged to bring them in the door is more money in your pocket.

[randfish]

One of the best ways to start out with PPC would be to go slowly, test the waters with a few of your best thought out ads and keyword phrases.

See how it goes and what kind of returns it brings you - use Overture first - they have a better system that generally produces higher ROI. Then move over to AdWords as well.

Find a happy niche and optimize, then go after another - I think any site worth its salt can use PPC to its advantage. Click fraud and high per click costs make it less profitable, but a return on investment can be had, and by turning the money you make into a tough, smart SEO campaign, you can pull in organic clicks too. That's the beauty of the web business.

[Chris Boggs]

Here is a real life example of a PPC new campaign. The owner of the site was at first very worried about spending any money on PPC. She agreed to a test campaign of merely $100, all of which would be budgeted towards PPC. The site does have a little bit of gross content, but it is after all a subject that many people may turn to the Internet to find out about. Here is the site: it provides colon cleaners (http://www.coloniccleanse.com).

Turns out that we were right about many people searching the net. By the time she had spent $50, she already had some sales (no specifics-but enough to make her realize the value).

The point I am making is that you also have to be a little lucky to do well in PPC: meaning that people have to need (or at least want) your product. They also have to be likely to buy it on the Internet. In this case, I would say probably 50% of people searching for this type of product (totally unscientific guess but opinions welcome) would love to buy it from the safety of their home so no one else runs into them at the drugstore.

Just an example of one industry that PPC matches-up very well with. Other industries would kill to have the CTR she had for her first week. She is probably not even going to worry about good SEO (of course I will try ;) )

Anyway…good luck again on your campaign…