Black Hat Ethics Question

[sajinx]

I have some company trying to tell me that putting my competitors company name in my keyword list is an "acceptable practice." "Everyone is doing it." Now I hadn't really heard that line since high school, and I am leery of anyone who says such things. Is this really ok? My gut tells me no. I reason that if someone searches their company my site would come up in the results. This can't be right. So is this Black, White, or Gray? Thanks to all who answer the call!:confused:

[AussieWebmaster]

if for paid search it is allowed.... and organic you can rank for what you want if it can be done

[sajinx]

Thanks for getting on this Aussie. Would this also apply to a PPC campaign? Why is this practice ok?

[AussieWebmaster]

Google allows you to use the keyword but not to include it in the actual ad.

the logic is people come to the grocery store for Coke but when they get to the soda aisle they may buy something different.... but a company can't say its coke

[sajinx]

Thanks again for your help clearing this up.

[SanDiegoSEO]

becareful. People are getting sued for using copywrited and trademarked terms in their meta tags.

[metasynman]

Yeah, I'd definitely steer away from it from an SEO standpoint, but it's a fairly common practice in PPC. I've never done it for my clients because I feel its tacky and untargeted, but it's up to you to do what you feel is the best tactic.

I say it's untargeted, because if someone is looking for a certain brand, they tend to already know what they want. If I know for certain that I want an "X-Brand" widget, you putting your ad for "Y-Brand" widgets probably isn't going to help you very much. I'd stick to unbranded yet targeted terms to help you in your SEM efforts. But this is just my personal advice. It's still perfectly "legal" to list a competitor brand as a KEYWORD for your PPC ads, as long as it's not found within the ad text itself.

[cryptblade]

What kind of company is telling you to use your competitors name in the meta tags? In fact, what backwards company still talks to you about your meta tags? The engines don't use meta tags to rank sites anymore - at least they are not nearly as valuable as people continue to think. Additionally, who do you think is going to be more important for your competitor's name- you or him? Unless he's a total idiot with online stuff, you'll have a harder time trying to "optimize" for your competitor's name. PPC is OK and I would argue that it's a good idea if there's enough competition. Need an example? do a Google search for "sugar crm" - you'll find an ad from Salesforce, the "darling" of the CRM industry (over Siebel, SAP, Oracle, Sage, etc.)

[AussieWebmaster]

I would never use a competitors name in mate tags unless it was to a comparison page

[beu]

mate tags

Nice touch Aussie! :)

[mcanerin]

1. Putting competition in your keyword metatags is the act of an amature, since Google ignores it, Yahoo and MSN barely acknowledge it, and you can get sued for it. "Everybody" most certainly is NOT doing it.

2. Now, putting the competition in your PPC keywords list is OK if your ad doesn't imply that you are them, hence the rule against having the word show up in the ad. The reason is what aussiewebmaster spoke of, above. The one issue is that you can only do it in some countries (mostly the English speaking ones).

3. One legitimate way of doing this in SEO is a product comparison page. Keep in mind that this (as a rule of thumb) is only allowed on English language sites. There are also advertising laws about making sure it's a fair comparison.

About the "English" rule of thumb. It's just that, a rule of thumb (always check your local and target market laws). In practice, countries like France and China feel that you should be spending your time promoting your product's benefits, NOT trying to make your competition look bad. England (and thus former English colonies) are more open to capitalist-style competitive actions.

For example, negative campaigning is considered a legitimate tactic in the US (and Canada, and the UK).*

Not everyone does things the same way, and it's important to keep that in mind, especially on the web, which is an international medium.

Personally, I avoid it simply because my job is helping sites with globalization and internationalization, but if you are focused on just the US, UK, Australia or Canada, then you have more options. Just be careful to do it right and obey the local(and target market)trademark and fairness in advertising laws.

Ian

* I'm restraining myself from making a political comment here - aren't you proud of me?

[beu]

Just as a follow up, Barry Schwartz (aka sew mod "rustybrick") reported Friday that Eric Goldman has uncovered one recent case where the "Court Says Keyword Metatags Don't Matter -- Standard Process vs. Banks".
http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2008/04/court_says_keyw.htm

Barry's article:
http://searchengineland.com/080425-083158.php

[JohnC]

I was forced to do this in PPC a while back by an employer. I didn't want to so I ran so extensive ROI tracking in hope of proving it did not convert. It did not.

Over a month and thousands of clicks later not one single conversion. After that it was easy to convince the boss to shut it down and from that point on I giggled a little every time I saw my competitors doing it.

If you do it, test it, I may work in some industries .. didn't in mine.

[sajinx]

Thanks to everyone for input, you all have great comments. This is part of a PPC effort. Ethically I don't like it, but it isn't my call. I am still against it and I agree JohnC. Hopefully this won't work and the "head honcho" will give it the hook. Hopefully I'll get to do some giggling of my own.