Google link: Question [Archive] - Search Engine Watch Forums

AussieWebmaster

01-17-2008, 12:41 PM

Thanks for the replies.

I guess that makes sense for Google to get everyone using WMT so everything is considered best practice. Pretty much makes the site: and link: searches obsolete

exactly... they want to get us all to use the tools.... and analytics so they have more information.... lol... better stop now before I start a big brother tirade

BoogalooDude

01-20-2008, 05:53 AM

exactly... they want to get us all to use the tools.... and analytics so they have more information.... lol... better stop now before I start a big brother tirade

Everything Google does is aimed at improving the quality of their index. The better quality the index, the more surfers Google gets, the more money we make using Google.

You need to get over the 'big brother' thing, Google is a business not a public service, it doesn't owe you a living, it doesn't owe you a damn thing. It doesn't have to make your life easier unless that coincides with their business goals. Forget this victim mentality and take advantage of one of the most remarkable marketing tools available to us online.

It's a quality service and if you play by their rules, you can make money. As I said to Kev, bottom line is you don't have to use Google if you don't like it but don't' bitch about them trying to improve the quality of their service.

BoogalooDude

01-20-2008, 05:56 AM

Thanks for the replies.

I guess that makes sense for Google to get everyone using WMT so everything is considered best practice. Pretty much makes the site: and link: searches obsolete

100% agree. GWT is straight from source, it doesn't get any better than that, plus the better the info they get, the better the tools they can provide us, it's a sweet set up.

AussieWebmaster

01-20-2008, 01:49 PM

Everything Google does is aimed at improving the quality of their index. The better quality the index, the more surfers Google gets, the more money we make using Google.

You need to get over the 'big brother' thing, Google is a business not a public service, it doesn't owe you a living, it doesn't owe you a damn thing. It doesn't have to make your life easier unless that coincides with their business goals. Forget this victim mentality and take advantage of one of the most remarkable marketing tools available to us online.

It's a quality service and if you play by their rules, you can make money. As I said to Kev, bottom line is you don't have to use Google if you don't like it but don't' bitch about them trying to improve the quality of their service.
You seem to forget that Google has now got close to a monopoly on internet search traffic which we know is the most "buy" orientated traffic on the web.... and yes they are a business... but monopolies need to be regulated because they can do what they want and there is no other place to go....

I like Google but think their "profit" motive has shown some poor decisions that could be called abuse of advertisers. And yes they own it so they can do what they want.... but there is no where else to go if you don't like it.

Eventually the government could get involved... not something I would like to see.

I don't know about them "improving quality".... sometimes that is true sometimes it is just them introducing factors they want to (which is their right) and the changes seem to force people to revert to their paid source of traffic.

BoogalooDude

01-21-2008, 12:16 PM

You seem to forget that Google has now got close to a monopoly on internet search traffic which we know is the most "buy" orientated traffic on the web.... and yes they are a business... but monopolies need to be regulated because they can do what they want and there is no other place to go....

I like Google but think their "profit" motive has shown some poor decisions that could be called abuse of advertisers. And yes they own it so they can do what they want.... but there is no where else to go if you don't like it.

Eventually the government could get involved... not something I would like to see.

I don't know about them "improving quality".... sometimes that is true sometimes it is just them introducing factors they want to (which is their right) and the changes seem to force people to revert to their paid source of traffic.

Couldn't agree less.

There's always competition, don't forget Alta Vista was in Google's position just a few years ago. There are plenty of alternatives to google but none that match their quality of service. However, who knows what may appear in the near future. Google can't grow forever, growth is not sustainable.

There's too much of the 'Google's got it in for me' attitude pervading the internet marketing community. Google are not big brother, they are a quality business with an excellent business model. Don't think like a victim, look for the opportunities.

'Abuse of advertisers' you said, just think about that for a moment, it says a lot about your mindset. Why would Google abuse the very people who make them so much money? I've been Google slapped but you don't hear me bitching about it, I just try to improve the quality of my advertising because ultimately it's me who benefits from that.

AussieWebmaster

01-21-2008, 01:42 PM

BoogalooDude

01-21-2008, 01:49 PM

I do not think Google has it in for me at all.... I think they hold such a large market share that their actions impact people way too heavily - and not just the spammers etc.

Many "innocent" people who did all the right things have been crushed by changes in the algorithm or price hikes in PPC.

The baby with the bathwater approach creates an instability in the web that justifies the Fortune 500 companies from taking it serious or bringing the level of spends they do on other media

Life is Darwinian. Adapt or die out, it's that simple. If Google are wrong, they'll go out of business but I really can't see that happening. If you're not fit for the Google environment, go somewhere else, there's plenty of choice despite what you say.

'baby and bathwater', 'innocent' 'crushed', they're all the words used by people who see themselves as being victimised by a bully. Do you want Google to stagnate,? Never change because you've finally figured out how to use it? And what about the people who are one step ahead of you and learned how to spam the index, they should just get away with it?

If you've been 'crushed' by a price hike in PPC, it's because you were doing something wrong. Improve.

AussieWebmaster

01-21-2008, 02:02 PM

Life is Darwinian. Adapt or die out, it's that simple. If Google are wrong, they'll go out of business but I really can't see that happening. If you're not fit for the Google environment, go somewhere else, there's plenty of choice despite what you say.

'baby and bathwater', 'innocent' 'crushed', they're all the words used by people who see themselves as being victimised by a bully. Do you want Google to stagnate,? Never change because you've finally figured out how to use it? And what about the people who are one step ahead of you and learned how to spam the index, they should just get away with it?

If you've been 'crushed' by a price hike in PPC, it's because you were doing something wrong. Improve.

I wonder how long you have been doing this. I spend over a million dollars a month on PPC and no one crushes me or throws me out with the bathwater... but the small guys the mom and pop people who your Darwinian logic says go away and die are the people I generally talk up for.

They do not have the access, the reach of voice.... guess your sense of responsibility for the less fortunate is summed up in your love of the uberDogs.... would you have been a bandwagon jumper on the Nazi parade?

AussieWebmaster

01-21-2008, 02:28 PM

Seems I am not the only one feeling this.

http://www.sitepronews.com/archives/2008/jan/21.html

jewboy

01-21-2008, 05:07 PM

BoogalooDude - are you saying that big businesses, especially monopolistic ones don't have to behave responsibly?

If you've been 'crushed' by a price hike in PPC, it's because you were doing something wrong. Improve

thats absurd. as more advertising dollars move away from print/tv and onto the web - keyword prices will go up - despite your best efforts to improve.

BoogalooDude

01-22-2008, 04:29 AM

BoogalooDude - are you saying that big businesses, especially monopolistic ones don't have to behave responsibly?

No of course I'm not. I'm saying don't cry if you get slapped by Google while they're trying to improve the quality of their service.

God, nothing could be further from the way I feel about big business ethics but this isn't the forum for that discussion. I have an ethical living website.

BoogalooDude

01-22-2008, 04:33 AM

I wonder how long you have been doing this. I spend over a million dollars a month on PPC and no one crushes me or throws me out with the bathwater... but the small guys the mom and pop people who your Darwinian logic says go away and die are the people I generally talk up for.

They do not have the access, the reach of voice.... guess your sense of responsibility for the less fortunate is summed up in your love of the uberDogs.... would you have been a bandwagon jumper on the Nazi parade?

The amount of money you spend doesn't change the fact that you talk like someone who thinks that Google owes them a living.

I'm not sure about the nazi comparison, the fact that you'd even use it in a discussion about Google is also very revealing about your mindset.

I admire Google for what they're trying to do, and how successful they've been whilst doing it, I don't feel put down when it hurts me, I just step up to the plate and raise my game. I don't cry about it and say that it's unfair and they're big bullies.

AussieWebmaster

01-22-2008, 11:38 AM

BD - we don't cry about being slapped by Google we just want people to realize that they are not this godlike entity

They are profit motivated not "do no evil" granola philantropists...

You seem in awe of Google - their coolness is one thing but like OZ they are hiding behind the curtain doing their thing and people need to realize that

I don't like the blind acceptance of Google actions - whether it is motivated by ignorant bliss or some misguided idea of what businesses can do

While we live in a free enterprise community - the 'greater good' needs some rules - one of which is antitrust.

Google owning such a large portion of the market falls under that - or in my opinion should. I want to avoid the growth of a "Big Brother" and the blind walk into blind acceptance.

If you don't challenge you give up your independence

AussieWebmaster

01-22-2008, 11:43 AM

PS this is a good list too
http://collective-thoughts.com/2008/01/19/top-12-reasons-to-distrust-google/

beu

01-22-2008, 11:44 AM

After all it is an auction, in some ways it's not even Google setting the price!

BoogalooDude

01-22-2008, 02:16 PM

They are profit motivated not "do no evil" granola philantropists...

I don't like the blind acceptance of Google actions - whether it is motivated by ignorant bliss or some misguided idea of what businesses can do

I don't like blind acceptance either, but it doesn't bother me as much as people who think Google IS some philanthropic organisation that should damn well be making their life easier not harder..

If you don't challenge you give up your independence

Are you challenging anything they do that doesn't affect you? Or is it just the things you don't like?

AussieWebmaster

01-22-2008, 03:15 PM

There is not too much Google is doing that affects me... well the introduction of inactivating PPC cost me 10s of thousands but okay it was for a good cause...

I challenge them to keep them away from becoming Big Brother or just a monopolistic whore.... pick whichever offends you less.

Ryan L

01-22-2008, 03:23 PM

Google is a business, and as such they flex their muscle.

Don't think for a second that the manipulation of adwords top spot algo was for anything other than to beat wall street profit expectations.

The fact of the matter is that adwords commands all the eyeballs and as such the demand is essentially inelastic. At this point for most the prices haven't reached the inflection point.

What remains to be seen is how they will massage the demand curve in the future.

*** I fall squarely in the small potatoes category spending less than $3,000 per month in adwords.

BoogalooDude

01-23-2008, 03:47 AM

I challenge them to keep them away from becoming Big Brother or just a monopolistic whore.... pick whichever offends you less.

No one is ever going to monopolise the internet so you don't have anything to worry about, unless it's government control of ISPs.

Google is just a search engine, that's all. Their business model is easy to copy so if they do turn suddenly stupid and start biting the hand that feeds them, people will move away to competitors and Google's day will be done.

I'm curious about how much of Google's innovations you take for granted or even think that you deserve just for using the internet.

Google have pretty much defined the way websites with good usability are built thanks to their sensible approach to controlling the quality of their index, do you follow that template or do you have your own non-google style because of the way you feel about them?

You spend a million a month on PPC? You must be making a profit or you wouldn't keep doing that. Thank you Google for having so many satisfied trusting surfers to click on your PPC ads.

When you search do you use Google or have you found another search engine that does it's best to provide good quality relevant search results? Thank you Google for protecting the quality of your index and minimising spam by doing things like not allowing paid links.

etc etc etc......

Don't try and turn Google into 'the man', they're just a good business who realise that providing a quality product is the way to get repeat business.

Ryan L

01-23-2008, 09:19 AM

"so if they do turn suddenly stupid and start biting the hand that feeds them"

-The problem is they have; by manipulating adwords algorithm and decreasing the clickable area on adsense ads, they are clearly biting the hand that feeds them.

Put simply though right now they are just trimming my/most sites fingernails, when they get to the first knuckle....many will have to re-evaluate.

Of course Google will know instantly as adwords account dwindle and adsense publishers get on board with other networks. They should be able to adjust accordingly, of course some will be sacrificed at teh altar of goog. The real mathematics at google are happening in the revenue projections dept. not the actual search algo.

All told you are correct in that they are a business and can do whatever they please. At this point its a net win situation for most still.

"Don't try and turn Google into 'the man'"

-apparently with net neutrality the fight for who 'the man' really is just beginning. Atnt, Level 3, etc....they all also feel entitled to the term 'the man'.

BoogalooDude

01-23-2008, 09:37 AM

"so if they do turn suddenly stupid and start biting the hand that feeds them"

-The problem is they have; by manipulating adwords algorithm and decreasing the clickable area on adsense ads, they are clearly biting the hand that feeds them.

I don't agree but then most people fall into one of two categories: those who feel like me that Google are simply improving their service which is good for my bottom line, or those who feel indignant that Google is dictating to them how they should do their business.

"Don't try and turn Google into 'the man'"

-apparently with net neutrality the fight for who 'the man' really is just beginning. Atnt, Level 3, etc....they all also feel entitled to the term 'the man'.

The fight over net neutrality rests squarely with ISPs, as I've already said, they really can control the internet. Google is just a search engine. This is Google's take on net neutrality (http://www.google.com/help/netneutrality.html). They're as concerned as we are.

Ryan L

01-23-2008, 10:21 AM

You admit that google is a business,yes.

They definitely work to improve their search quality, so they can keep the eyeballs and charge accordingly.

They also as a publicly traded company work to increase revenue to appease their shareholders.

While most of the time these two main factors work in conjunction; it is naive to think that they will always correlate.

Its their playground and I wanna play...that doesn't mean that I won't question the rules.

BoogalooDude

01-23-2008, 01:59 PM

Its their playground and I wanna play...that doesn't mean that I won't question the rules.

Fine, but if you're going to question things, don't just question the things that you don't like, it makes you look like one the indignant types. :eek:

Ryan L

01-24-2008, 09:11 AM

done and done mate.

scrubs

01-24-2008, 11:46 AM

Some interesting views have come up. BoogalooDude, I like your attitude for changing with the times - and as we know Google does like to keep us on our toes with Natural & paid search.

You have to take on board AussieWebmaster thoughts regarding G monopolizing the industry, its pretty much fact that they are head and shoulders above anyone else. Due to G's power they can offer more insightful tools in their index then anyone else, i.e search history etc.

I am happy to use G's tools to help deliver best practice, but the next generation search for custom search results does freak me out a little - the fact Google will probably cobble together results the system based on my personal likes/dislikes is a little scary.