A few clarifications from AWR

[PPCPro]

Hi AWR,

Hope you had a great weekend.

A few clarifications on Adwords:

1. When non-US visitors use Google,US to search something(typing gl=US at the end of the url) - are the impressions counted for CTR calculation?

2. If the answer is yes to the above, would geo-targeting be more useful from the point of reducing impression frauds

3.For a keyword if there are two phrase matches with the same CTR*CPC, which would get a higher position,the one with higher CPC or the one with higher CTR?


Thanks in anticipation.

[AdWordsRep]

1. When non-US visitors use Google,US to search something(typing gl=US at the end of the url) - are the impressions counted for CTR calculation?
Good question, and I am not really certain of the answer, PPCPro. I'll have to consult on that one.

In the meantime, though, I'm not 100% sure that I've fully understood the question. Specifically, do you mean a user who is using a non-US language interface that is not targeted by the advertiser, and who is also in a country that is not targeted by the advertiser?


3.For a keyword if there are two phrase matches with the same CTR*CPC, which would get a higher position,the one with higher CPC or the one with higher CTR?
Sorry, but not sure I've gotten this one either. ;) Do you mean two identical keywords used in different places within an account - and which have exactly the same rank number? Or do you mean in different accounts?

In reality, though, in either case it is extremely unlikely that the rank number would ever be identical. This is because CTR is calculated out to many decimal places, (although it is shown as rounded off to one decimal place in the stats). The fact that it is taken to many decimal places makes it extremely unlikely that two keywords would have an identical CTR.

As an aside, may I ask a favor of the Forum? I'd really prefer that folks not address queries specifically to me. Although I do work at AdWords, it is also true that there are many others on the Forum who are extremely sharp and well informed - and who can answer just as well as I can. I usually hang back a bit before answering for that exact reason.

Bottom line, I'd much rather be seen as another trusted resource, rather than the trusted resource. :)

AWR

[PPCPro]

Hi AWR,

Thanks for your mail.

As an aside, may I ask a favor of the Forum? I'd really prefer that folks not address queries specifically to me. Although I do work at AdWords, it is also true that there are many others on the Forum who are extremely sharp and well informed - and who can answer just as well as I can. I usually hang back a bit before answering for that exact reason.

Really sorry to direct it straight to you ... its just that the queries pertain to one of our current client's campaigns and the pressure for a clarification is immense ;) , we thought that "we should hear it straight from horse's mouth".Thanks for your patience.
We will keep this in mind henceforth..



I'm not 100% sure that I've fully understood the question. Specifically, do you mean a user who is using a non-US language interface that is not targeted by the advertiser, and who is also in a country that is not targeted by the advertiser?
If a person sitting in China or India or Brazil wants to see the ads(on US format of GAW),would that count as an impression? This has direct reference to "possible areas for impression fraud".


Sorry, but not sure I've gotten this one either. Do you mean two identical keywords used in different places within an account - and which have exactly the same rank number? Or do you mean in different accounts?
Keyword: widget
Phrase matches:"blue widgets", "sell widgets" both with same CTR*CPC.Which one would be higher in listing position? A freak instance but nevertheless mathematically possible. This finds reference to one of our competitors always maintaining the top position whatever we might do... our current CTR for the ad group is 25% and we are just unable to move from position two to one.


Thanks again for your patience.

[projectphp]

3.For a keyword if there are two phrase matches with the same CTR*CPC, which would get a higher position,the one with higher CPC or the one with higher CTR?
Surely WAAAAAAYYYYY to hypothetical. For that to happen, man, it would need to be pretty damned lucky!!! Example:

CTR = 87/884
CPC = 0.73

CTR * CPC = $0.029524886877828054298642533936652.

Now, if you can get another figure that is EXCATLY the same as that, I'll buy you a beer :)

And don't forget, even if this came true, the very next search teh numbers would be different. The chances of this occurring, in The Real World V1.0 are buckley's (http://www.anu.edu.au/ANDC/Ozwords/Oct%202000/Buckley's.html) and none.

[realgames]

our current CTR for the ad group is 25% and we are just unable to move from position two to one.

Not sure if this helps you but I believe the CTR used for the BidRank Formula is the CTR of the Keyword matched to the individual search rather than the CTR for the ad group.

Having said that it is very strange how some advertisers are able to maintain first position. We have the same 'problem' with our main campaign where we rank 2 on the Keywords with the most impressions and can find no viable way of budging the competitor who is stuck at position 1. We know the competitor does not have a high CTR because their ad never gets a Premium position. Our CTR is about 9% for the main keyword which would get a premium position if we could get above our competitor. Having studied how BidRank works the only conclusion I can draw is that our competitor is bidding a crazy max CPC to maintain position 1 and that if we stick at improving our CTR (now have over 1000 negative keywords) for long enough we will get ahead.

[AdWordsRep]

Really sorry to direct it straight to you ... its just that the queries pertain to one of our current client's campaigns and the pressure for a clarification is immense , we thought that "we should hear it straight from horse's mouth".Thanks for your patience.We will keep this in mind henceforth..
Thanks for that! I just don't want to wear out my welcome amongst the moderators, and the many others who post here. I appreciate your understanding. :)


If a person sitting in China or India or Brazil wants to see the ads(on US format of GAW),would that count as an impression? This has direct reference to "possible areas for impression fraud".
In the absence of really specific detail about targeting and so forth, my best answer is "Yes, probably", to your query about whether impressions are accrued when a non-US user is appending gl=US to a search query.


Keyword: widget
Phrase matches:"blue widgets", "sell widgets" both with same CTR*CPC.Which one would be higher in listing position? A freak instance but nevertheless mathematically possible. This finds reference to one of our competitors always maintaining the top position whatever we might do... our current CTR for the ad group is 25% and we are just unable to move from position two to one.
In the exact example given here, well, neither ad would show at all (assuming I've understood you correctly).

I am assuming you are referring to two advertisers with phrase matches of "blue widgets" and "sell widgets" in their respective keyword lists. If the search query is 'widgets', then neither ad will show.

As to the larger question of what happens when two advertiser have the exact same Rank Number on keywords eligible to show for a given search, I have gone as high up as I can on the engineering ladder, and get the same answer from all. To paraphrase: "It isn't going to happen".

My favorite response was that "CTR is calculated to a ridiculous number of decimal places to prevent this from happening".

So, this couldn't be the issue behind why you have not yet been able to show above your competitor - especially since CTR is by definition different from one search to the next, as pointed out a post or two above by projectphp.

By the way, realgames is correct in saying:

Not sure if this helps you but I believe the CTR used for the BidRank Formula is the CTR of the Keyword matched to the individual search rather than the CTR for the ad group.
The CTR of the Ad Group is unrelated your ads position. It is entirely the CTR of the keyword searched upon that matters.

I hope that helps answer your client's questions. :)


AWR

[PPCPro]

Thanks AWR