Is SEO cheating your customers? Part 2

[acerview54]

Firstly thank you to all the individuals who have bothered to reply to my posting about SEO & SME.

A couple of points, please; I have posted this article to 4 forums as I wanted to understand the feeling in this area quickly and from as many points of view as possible and from the maximum number of individuals.

Secondly,partially relevant, my work experience includes B2B and B2C including founding 2 successful Internet start-ups and offline businesses trading internationally. I am now a consultant for companies such as Hotbar & Incredimail. But my background is NOT solely Internet based but includes 'real' world business.

The replies to my posting, I am afraid, do nothing to change my opinion. This is, that many Internet experts are NOT aware of the realities of how B2B business operates and believe that 'One size fits all'.

I believe in my article I clearly defined that the thrust of my negative opinion is based on 2 factors;
1. That B2B business is not well served by catch all SEO solutions but require clear and experienced specialists to provide direction and marketing. It is way too easy to place complete trust in technology, as a solution, hard work still has to be added.
2. I feel strongly that a whole industry that bases it's selling premise on telling every customer that he will achieve a top ten position cannot be believed, we cannot all win the race. I for one have met many businessmen who spend nothing on Internet marketing, when they should, because they do not believe us, they are not fools. A critical failing.

Apologies I initially posted this as a reply rather than a new thread.

[Mikkel deMib Svendsen]

I feel strongly that a whole industry that bases it's selling premise on telling every customer that he will achieve a top ten position cannot be believed

I don't know who told you it's like that but it's very far from the truth. I, for one, have never told any client that. In fact, I hardly ever talk about rankings but focus of relevant trafic, conversions and ROI - as most of my good colleagues do too.

So I think you are wrong - the industry is NOT based on selling top 10 positions

[Nick W]

Can you say "trolling".....

Nick

[fathom]

The replies to my posting, I am afraid, do nothing to change my opinion. This is, that many Internet experts are NOT aware of the realities of how B2B business operates and believe that 'One size fits all'.

Why are your posts simply cut and pasted from the previous forum (100% verbatim)?

You are not commenting to the uniqueness of each forum membership for which you are attempting to engage... and clearly "by not doing so" it is your expertise and professionalism that is suspect.

If you "are" a professional please have the coursity to engage us as equally competent peers and not the some sticky substance found on a pig farm.

[Nick W]

Dont forget what the REPUTATION system is for guys - You'll find a link at the top of posts titled "rate this post"....

Nick

[I, Brian]

Doesn't stop trolling, though. :)

[Nick W]

Unfortunately not Brian :(

But it does reflect what the members think about someone that does this kind of thing..

Nick

[mcanerin]

This is a classic "strawman" argument - choose a false or highly controversial statement, attribute it to the other side without justification, then attack it.

1. That B2B business is not well served by catch all SEO solutions but require clear and experienced specialists to provide direction and marketing. It is way too easy to place complete trust in technology, as a solution, hard work still has to be added.

I don't know many SEO's that offer catch all, "one-size" solutions. Come to think of it, I don't know any. Maybe some people selling auto-submissions software and the like. The fact that certain tactics tend to work and are therefore used is no different from a bricks and mortar business doing things like, buying ads and getting into the Yellow Pages, etc.

These posts don't appear to be intended to address the members of the forum (contrary to what you are claiming), they appear to be aimed at clients of those on the forum and people doing basic research.

It seems to me that this is a disguised sales pitch - you admit to being a consultant for alternative internet marketing systems (read: spamwear and spywear) like hotbar and incredimail leads me to believe this is an attempt to discredit the competition because they are doing a better job and providing more value to the clients.

Both products are one-size fits all, ironically. Why does a search for Hotbar return hundreds of thousands of results for how to REMOVE it? And Incredimail takes over your browser and email settings - they are BOTH on spywear removal lists. And neither involve "hard work" on the part of the marketer. Far less so than even the most basic SEO services.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. :rolleyes:

2. I feel strongly that a whole industry that bases it's selling premise on telling every customer that he will achieve a top ten position cannot be believed, we cannot all win the race. I for one have met many businessmen who spend nothing on Internet marketing, when they should, because they do not believe us, they are not fools. A critical failing.

No experienced SEO will tell all clients they can guarantee top ten rankings in anything but very non-competitive phrases, at least not long term, with the exception of PPC. Come to think of it, *I'm* not even doing the guaranteeing there - Google or Overture would be.

Do I get top ten rankings a lot? Sure, all the time. But I'm picky about who I take on as clients. If there is no way that the client in question *should or could* be in the top ten of a relevant search, then it's a waste of time trying to put them there. Even if I succeed, it will change pretty rapidly as soon as the SE in question finds out.

Further, the "whole industry" implies everyone. I'm well aware that dragging out semantics is a cheesy argument, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean 'most" or a "significant portion" since "whole" is obviously and blatantly unsupportable. Having watered down your argument even that far, it's still unsupportable. The fact that some amateurs DO occasionally say things like this hardly speaks to the rest of us. And many pros DO offer a guarantee, and don't charge if they don't produce the result, which is also ok. So, wrong again.

The replies to my posting, I am afraid, do nothing to change my opinion. This is, that many Internet experts are NOT aware of the realities of how B2B business operates and believe that 'One size fits all'.

Your opinion appears to be based either on false assumptions or a desire to promote your products, rather than an actual analysis.

Further, this highly generalized statement does not even directly address the original contention. For one thing, I can replace the term "internet experts" in that statement with "salespeople" "marketers" "lawyers" "politicians" and, yes, "business people" and it would say the same, empty platitude - nothing. Inexperienced people from ALL walks of life seem to think "one Size Fits All" So what? Your own products are proof of it, and yet you claim experience, which is even worse than amateurs making the mistake.

Experienced business people, lawyers, salespeople and, yes SEO's and SEM's know that marketing efforts need to be tailored to the situation. Kind of obvious and has nothing to do with the rest of the postings you've made. Unless your other assumption is that all ("the whole industry") SEO's and SEM's are inexperienced amateurs. And I beg to differ.

My opinion,

Ian