Guerilla Marketing & Underhand Tactics - All Fair in Love and War?

[Nick W]

Over the last few weeks i've had some opportunity to observe some truly inept forums spammers in action. Also, one or two quite good ones, so good that im not certain they were spamming ;)

By forum spamming i mean this:

NewbieA: Hey, i just found this place it's way cool! Does anyone know anything about xyz.com's link program?

NewbieB: Yeah, we just tried them, we opted for the "gold account" account at $300 and it really rocks! Our sites have shot up in the SERPS!!

blah blah blah....

Im not talking about posting your site and hoping the mods dont delete it but real sneaky tactics like posing as newbie webmasters (or dog owners, car owners whatever) in order to create a "buzz" about your product.

Of course you can also do this on blogs.

Some things they get wrong:

* Having the same join date is stupidity incarnate
* Knowing to many details about the product is unconvincing
* Making the same spelling errors is just sloppy
* Using only 2 fake newbies is also sloppy

Now, for me, it was much fun. I do love to see these things when they happen, i had very good teachers in my days at wmw and there is not a more "spam conscious" forum owner on the planet than Brett Tabke (ahem... you know what i mean)..

But, my questions are these, for the sake of just generally getting the ball rolling on a subject that facinates me:


Would you spam message boards if it would increase sales?
If so, what else would you be prepared to do?
How far is too far in marketing?


For me, all is fair in love and war, i've never done it, but if I ever did, i'd like to think I could do a better job than some of the sad jobbies i've seen out there recently. So, yes, under the right circumstances, in places I do *not* frequent, i might well be tempted...

Nick

[seobook]

But, my questions are these, for the sake of just generally getting the ball rolling on a subject that facinates me:


Would you spam message boards if it would increase sales?
If so, what else would you be prepared to do?
How far is too far in marketing?

I think it is all about making buddies who autospam for you without you asking them to. if others want to recommend your stuff then it is not really spam and it stands up longer.

>How far is too far in marketing?
when you use your wedding as an excuse for a marketing get together that is a bit far IMHO

[Nick W]

hehe, Brad explained all that too me ;-) not a put down for SG...

Nick

[Jill Whalen]

Funny, that's the oldest trick in the book. I used to link build using similar tactics way back in the mid 90's. (Not for links then, just relevant traffic.)

It's very easy for me to spot that sort of thing on my forum, and it gets removed pretty quickly when I do. I think it's funny how the posters think they're being all really smart like they are the only ones in the world who ever thought of doing it! (Then act all indignant when caught!)

That said, would I do it today? I would, but in a smarter way. I do have one client coming up where I think this strategy would be useful. Mostly to build a buzz in the right industry. But I wouldn't just go in and spam. I'd only post info on my site where it was relevant, or even just use a sig. line as necessary.

Okay, so now we can start the headlines, "Jill Whalen is a spammer"! (Oh wait, that one's been done before!) :cool:

[critter]

I truly believe it all depends....isn't this kind of spam a form of "VIRAL MARKETING"?

ALthough there are millions of users online, I believe the internet is a fairly tight nit group and when/if you piss off the wrong people it can follow and haunt you for quite some time.

Personally I'm not a spam fan, but I agree with Jill in that proper, effective "BUZZING" is maybe a better way to spread the word so to speak without blatanly spamming forums..

Cheers

CRITTER

[seobook]

Personally I'm not a spam fan, but I agree with Jill in that proper, effective "BUZZING" is maybe a better way to spread the word so to speak without blatanly spamming forums..
its all linguistics and technique.

[Nick W]

when/if you piss off the wrong people it can follow and haunt you for quite some time.

that would put me in a class all of my own then :)

Nick

[Brad]

Sometimes it's fun to see some true masters at work: those that can lay an oh-so casual linkdrop down in a thread and everybody ends ou thanking them and saying they are a genius. Yet it was a link drop nonetheless. :D Hehe!

Then we get the less artful as Nick just pointed out.

<slight aside>
I also run a small genre based forum and there I get a lot of authors linkdropping. I feel bad about cautioning them not to, because I think they feel they have to spam forums because in a very real sense, the search engines with their fancy link pop and algo's fail these authors. Back in the old days when we relied on directories to find content they stood a decent chance but not anymore.

I guess my point is that there is a whole part of the hobby and content Web that has to rely on guerrilla marketing, conversations as markets and old fashion things like webrings and banner exchanges just to get some traffic.

</slight aside>

[Nick W]

Well, i just bought myself a subscription to a lovely set of high speed, high stealth proxies so watch out! hehe....

Seriously though, if you're going to do these things, do them right goddamit! I saw some silly little oik spamming the crap out of ihelpyou the other day (think he did one with you and i posted a note in it..) he just did one after the other, after the other... it was pathetic.

Nothing annoys me more than amateurs.. (ill just restate that i've not done this yet, i'd happily tell you if i had..)

Personally, i find it easier to bring attention to your website by starting a thread with a provocative title and a reasonably broad subject that people will want to participate in.

Of course you have to have your sig or custom user title with the domain... (OMG SPAMMER!)

Nick

[Brad]

Personally, i find it easier to bring attention to your website by starting a thread with a provocative title and a reasonably broad subject that people will want to participate in.

You got that right Nick. If one makes good and thoughtful posts, people will check out the link in the profile. :)

[andrewgoodman]

Who was it that said that "every great fortune is built on a crime"?

Half the inherited wealth today seems to have descended from pirates or bootleggers. Draw your own conclusions, I guess. And don't get caught.

P.S. Jill Whalen is a spammer!

[fathom]

P.S. Jill Whalen is a spammer!

Well she's in good company... Google's included in this list as well... and so am I - I guess since I do as Google does. ;)

[dstew]

>How far is too far in marketing?
when you use your wedding as an excuse for a marketing get together that is a bit far IMHO


AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
ROFLMAO
AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


Cut it out......stop it......you're killing me......


AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
ROFLMAO
AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

[seobook]

>How far is too far in marketing?

>when you use your wedding as an excuse for a marketing get together that is a bit far IMHO
AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
ROFLMAO
AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


Cut it out......stop it......you're killing me......


AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
ROFLMAO
AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
an internet marketer recently did this.

[dstew]

an internet marketer recently did this.

Yes, I received the invitations too, over and over and over again, and just deleted them. Though it was odd then, and laughed my a55 off when you reminded us again... :D

[kenpomachine]

Then we get the less artful as Nick just pointed out.

The worst I've seen is the same spam post posted in different forums word by word, with a difference of weeks. The only creativity there was in the nicks
:eek:

[seobook]

The worst I've seen is the same spam post posted in different forums word by word, with a difference of weeks. The only creativity there was in the nicks
:eek:
I have seen the same post in over a half dozen forums by the same name on the same day.

[Nick W]

There was a classic one on ihelpyou recently, I reported him! (when in rome...)

He posted again and again and again about his dumbarse adwords sites, got banned. Then joined up and tried again as SameUserName2

Some people are just born stupid.

>invitations

Ohhh.. do tell.. please?

Nick

[Jill Whalen]

P.S. Jill Whalen is a spammer!


You heard it here first, folks! :D

[seobook]

>invitations

Ohhh.. do tell.. please?
those on his subscriber list got like 5 messages I think

[I, Brian]

NewbieA: Hey, i just found this place it's way cool! Does anyone know anything about xyz.com's link program?

NewbieB: Yeah, we just tried them, we opted for the "gold account" account at $300 and it really rocks! Our sites have shot up in the SERPS!!


What's really funny is when the posts are mere minutes apart, and from the same IP.


There's cunning, and then there's plain stupidity.

[kenpomachine]

I have seen the same post in over a half dozen forums by the same name on the same day.

Yes, that worse because It means that you've done at least part of your homework before, but forums in spanish are not that many as compared to the ones in english.

[seohelp]

Amusing when you reply with “SPAM” and they start giving you abuse :)

Get the felling that even the most obvious forum spam works if an admin isnt quick to delete it. Often see some threads get to several pages before people finish arguing and realise the original poster has still only made one post and long gone.

[seobook]

Amusing when you reply with “SPAM” and they start giving you abuse :)

Get the felling that even the most obvious forum spam works if an admin isnt quick to delete it. Often see some threads get to several pages before people finish arguing and realise the original poster has still only made one post and long gone.
that is so true. recently one person in particular must have had a prescripted reply about how nasty the people at this or that forum are.

it is a hard task to filter out all the spam without offending a few people, but usually the more their listing is absolute rubish spam the more inclined they are to become crazily offended

[rustybrick]

So is this marketing ethical? Would you participate in this?

I remember a very smart eBay tactic. This guy wrote this long sobbing story about how fiance walked off before his wedding day. He lost the ring, the car, and other things (I forget). This poor guy decided to take his story and the only thing he had left, the wedding dress, and post it on eBay for sale. Not only did this story spread like wild fire throughout the forums, email forwarding, and blogs. But also...I heard this story on a major radio station here in New York (104.3).

Guess how much the wedding dress sold for? $3,850

Anyway, this turned out to be a little underhanded. But I felt it was a bit relevant to the title of this thread.

Quick Google search on wedding dress ebay guy: See the Seattle Times article (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001915316_brodeur29m.html) on this. Oh, a picture sounds cool too. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2001915078.jpg

[werty]

On a message board that I run, if someone tries to drop an affiliate link I change their affiliate code(just a number a or two) and leave the link live. or just delete the thread if no one has replied to it.

Street teamers (forum/guestbook.etc spammers) come by all the time to promote bands...it has gotten so bad we created a seperate public forum for them, and dump all promotional threads into that and let the real users rip into the street teamers. It strengthens my community by allowing my members to gang up on the people who post this nonsense. This forum is disallowed by robots.txt

[Nick W]

That's a very cool idea Werty! - Filed for future reference... thanks

Nick

[massa]

>P.S. Jill Whalen is a spammer!<

I consider JW a community leader, a teacher and a businesswoman.

>Mostly to build a buzz in the right industry. <

Oooooohhhnh, I LIKE that one. We're not spammers, we're buzzers.

I'm not an SEO, (whatever that is), I'm an SEB. Nothing could be wrong with creating buzz could there?

[robwatts]

I'm not an SEO, (whatever that is), I'm an SEB. Nothing could be wrong with creating buzz could there?I can't confess to knowing what an SEB is, although I do know a few SOB's...

:p

[massa]

SEB = search engine buzzer

[robwatts]

Cheers Bob, although Im kinda clueless on its meaning.

Care to share?