View Full Version : Does PR Really Affect Ranking?
kjripp
10-25-2007, 02:01 PM
I keep reading conflicting information about PageRank and its effect on your SERP rankings. Some say it does, some say it doesn't. With all the uproar over the recent PR update, is there a definitive answer?
~Kari
AussieWebmaster
10-25-2007, 03:38 PM
It does have an impact but as far as I can see only as a final decider.... which suggests it is a very minor impact
birdie
10-26-2007, 06:28 PM
Of course PR affects rankings! But so do >100 other things, so its just one of the >100 factors.
kjripp
10-26-2007, 07:12 PM
Well, as I mentioned originally, I've been reading conflicting info and wanted a definitive answer. My other reason for asking is because we've just started heavy SEO, and right now our PR is 0 (it's been 0 for a little while). I have no idea why - I do know that a couple of years ago we had a duplicate content issue on internal pages, but that's been fixed since. We had a PR of 3 for a little while after that, but then (I don't know exactly when) it went back down to 0.
We do have a linkbuilding strategy, and the incoming links are not bad (we're not quite to the point of getting lots of authority links, but we're not getting links from bad neighborhoods or irrelevant sites either). We've also started putting lots of original content in the form of articles on the site. This has been going on over the last couple of months, so is it just a wait and see, or could something else be happening?
Any advice on what to do?
birdie
10-26-2007, 07:21 PM
Don't rely on the toolbar for what your real PR is. On one of my sites the toolbar has been on 0 for a year now --- based on backlinks I beleive it should be a high 4 or low 5 .... its ranks fine.
This has been going on over the last couple of months, so is it just a wait and see, or could something else be happening?
Is your toolbar PR actually "0" or something, anything else?
PageRank is important but when it comes to ranking so is relevancy.
(ie cnn.com has a PR of 9 but doesn't show up in SERPs for "pizza")
Quantum
10-27-2007, 03:50 PM
Some of the pages on my site had PR drops yesterday. My homepage still has PR 3 but an important page dropped from 4 to 2. My links page also dropped from 3 to 0. I've been reading a lot on forums and blogs about the recent Google PR changes, and most people don't report any changes in their rankings. Well unfortunately that's not the case for me.
My ranking for important keywords dropped about 10 spots around October 14th, and I disappeared completely for other keywords for which I ranked well before. I still rank number one for my name and very specific keywords. My page that had PR 4 before had the biggest drop in the SERPs. It doesn't show up for terms that ranked me #1 for a long time.
I don't sell text links, but I do buy links on related pages with high PR. What annoys me is that all my competition does the same, and they haven't dropped. Do you think someone reported my site to Google for buying links? Should I report my competition to Google? Most of them also sell links.
Thanks for your help.
BuckfastMonk
10-27-2007, 04:24 PM
"I don't sell text links, but I do buy links on related pages with high PR"
Thats a problem. Buying links soely on the basis of high PR is a recipe for disaster
Quantum
10-27-2007, 04:49 PM
It also seems pretty clear to me that the recent changes are all related to link buying/selling. I guess the debate now is what Google is doing exactly. Do you think Google is giving penalties or the sold links just got devalued?
There are definitely a lot of sites out there who are clearly selling and buying links, but they're not being affected. If an algo could detect the links that I bought, it could certainly detect their links too. All the "You Link Here" and "Sponsored Links" text on these sites should also be a pretty clear giveaway that they're selling links.
Janna122003
10-27-2007, 05:37 PM
I think PR has less value nowadays. PR is just a score of site based on the quality of links. It does not affect SERP. Even you have PR 0 you can have a good rankings with your targeted keywords.
birdie
10-27-2007, 05:42 PM
Thats a problem. Buying links soely on the basis of high PR is a recipe for disaster
Please tell us how this is a 'receipe for diaster'? All Google are doing is not passing the link juice from purchased links. How is that a 'receipe for diaster'?
Quantum
10-27-2007, 05:56 PM
PR is just a score of site based on the quality of links. It does not affect SERP.
I don't agree with that. Google's technology is based on the idea of PR. There's a lot of other factors that go into rankings, but PR is a big one.
I think people get confused between Toolbar PR and the real PR Google uses. The little green bar is not always very accurate, but I think the real PR, which is based on link popularity and quality, is very important for rankings.
One of my pages started dropping in the ranking a couple of weeks ago. Now it just dropped from PR 4 to 2. I suspect Google started devaluing paid links a few weeks ago, and now they're starting to show the results in the Toolbar.
birdie
10-27-2007, 06:04 PM
Of course, if rankings are partially determined by the number of links and the quality of links. And if the little green thing on the toolbar is a measure of the number of links and the quality of links..... how can anyone reach the conclusion it does not affect SERPS?
BuckfastMonk
10-27-2007, 08:23 PM
Please tell us how this is a 'receipe for diaster'? All Google are doing is not passing the link juice from purchased links. How is that a 'receipe for diaster'?
Go to any real SEO - tell them that you buy links from sites because there PR is high - see what they say. Anyhow my original post was directed at the original poster not you , so why are you butting in?
birdie
10-27-2007, 08:44 PM
Go to any real SEO - tell them that you buy links from sites because there PR is high - see what they say. Anyhow my original post was directed at the original poster not you , so why are you butting in?I am butting in as you are wrong!!! If I went to any real SEO and told them as I was buying links they would probably tell me that I would not get any benefit from them as Google are identifying them as paid links and not passing any 'link juice' from them. Please tell us where are you getting your information from that this is a "recipe for diaster"?
If I went to a real SEO and told them I was selling links, they would tell me that I had better put a 'no follow' on them or Google might not like it ---- but that is not what we are talking about it.
Rather than attack me for 'butting in' please explain your 'recipe for diaster' claim...
BuckfastMonk
10-27-2007, 08:52 PM
Selling and buying links is not the issue!
The issue is PR! It doesn't matter if you buy them, rent them, swap them for your wife, your granny, whatever you do to get the link - if you chase links based on PR only, you have a recipe for disaster! Like I already said two times!! Do I need to spell it out again? Go back and read the post this time before butting in little grasshoper
birdie
10-27-2007, 08:56 PM
I will type this really slow ...
P l e a s e ....... explain why buying a link is a 'recipe for a diaster'?
Which is what you claimed - or are you now backing down from this claim.
BuckfastMonk
10-27-2007, 09:14 PM
I will quote my original post.
<snip>
"I don't sell text links, but I do buy links on related pages with high PR"
Thats a problem. Buying links soely on the basis of high PR is a recipe for disaster
Did you notice the PR bit ? So again, <snip>, buying links based solely on PR is a recipe for disaster - the buying a link part is not the issue and it's not what I said. I buy thousands of links every month accross hundreds of different websites in adult verticals. The issue, as I have already clearly stated (several times) is that purchasing links based solely on PR is a recipe for disaster.
Did you understand that? just to recap . . .
obtaining links (buying, renting, or just getting them naturally) based solely on the other websites PR is a recipe for disaster
Marcia
10-27-2007, 09:44 PM
Buying links soely on the basis of high PR is a recipe for disasterBut HOW is it a recipe for disaster? What will happen, and how do they find out?
Are they actually algorithmically determining whether links are on-topic, off-topic, bought or editorially given? Can they tell which are paid or not, with no human intervention?
BuckfastMonk
10-27-2007, 10:01 PM
Marcia I am not disputing that buying links is a bad thing.
I am saying that actively searching out links based on their websites PR is a disaster. ok, it's not the end of the world but it is a complete waste of your time as an SEO and it's a completely useless exercise - It is 2007, not 1999. PR is not an indication of the quality of any website. I wont insult your intelligence by telling you why
"Are they actually algorithmically determining whether links are on-topic, off-topic, bought or editorially given?
on-toipic/off-topic yes, bought or editorially given - thats were they are still struggling
"Can they tell which are paid or not, with no human intervention?"
With no human intervention and no "hey, im selling links on my site" flags, then no, But then again, who knows what tomorrow will bring - If you are using gmail to bounce email back and forth for a "private" link purchase could google see this?
BuckfastMonk
10-27-2007, 10:10 PM
Do you agree Marcia that obtaining links, based solely on a websites PR is a wasteful exercise?
Quantum
10-27-2007, 11:54 PM
So that brings back my original question. Do you think I could have dropped in the rankings because someone reported my site to Google, and then my links got devalued? It's true that I buy some links on high PR sites, but I always make sure they are good quality sites and very much related to my content. Most of my competition buys links, and some also sell a lot of links. What do you think about reporting your competition to Google? Personnaly I don't really like that idea, but if they're doing it...
mikevman
10-28-2007, 12:30 AM
Google just made rank changes, a lot of sites that have paid links have droped, do a search for google rank change in news and u should find the articles.
BuckfastMonk
10-28-2007, 12:38 AM
If you are buying links to drive traffic then you have nothing to worry about. People who chase PR without giving any thought to quality, traffic or relevancy for link building are idots. Be it a paid link or a natural link. In fact a paid link is worse because you actually pay for it, so I'm sticking by my original post - it is a disaster to buy a link on the sole basis of PR
You are already focusing on quality and relevancy which is great.
It's certainly possible that your links have been devalued. Are you certain that a competitor has caused it and not the link selling sites? There are far too many factors to consider so I can only speculate which is not what you want to hear. The only way to know for sure is do your own testing. Make small changes, give it some time and record the results. Step back/forward as necessary
I am of the opinion not to report your competition - Having said that, if it's obvious they had done it then go right ahead. I actually get competitors mailing me to tell me they reported me. Why they do this, is beyond me. Just a word of caution, it's never who you think so don't jump the gun unless you know for sure or you could just be nasty and go report them. Comes down to how your feel about it yourself
I personally wouldn't bother. Just concentrate on getting your ranking back
AussieWebmaster
10-28-2007, 01:59 AM
buying links is not bad.... it can be a waste of money if not done smartly
BuckfastMonk
10-28-2007, 09:59 AM
Right, exactly. So you agree that chasing links based on PR is not smart? be it a purchase or a link obtained naturally
So you agree that chasing links based on PR is not smart?
Safe to say, you are not getting what you paid for if you paid for a high PR link from one of the sites affected by "PR SMACKDOWN 07" last week.
Buying year long contract for what is today a PR9 link simply becaue it is a PR9 link, does not seem like a smart idea.
:)
AussieWebmaster
10-29-2007, 11:01 AM
Safe to say, you are not getting what you paid for if you paid for a high PR link from one of the sites affected by "PR SMACKDOWN 07" last week.
Buying year long contract for what is today a PR9 link simply becaue it is a PR9 link, does not seem like a smart idea.
:)
If you buy links for the PR then you are being impacted by the changes... if you get them to increase the relevancy of your site you may not have been as impacted
If you buy links for the PR then you are being impacted by the changes... if you get them to increase the relevancy of your site you may not have been as impacted
So, true!:)
Ryan L
10-29-2007, 11:32 AM
my take on the paid links debacle:
buying links for SEO is a shortcut that might not be worth it in the long run.
You might hit more homeruns but at some point those *******s at Balco might sing...
btw visible page rank IMHO is a joke...do you think that when rc cola comes out with a new recipe...someone at coke sends them a "your getting warmer" email.
Janna122003
10-29-2007, 12:26 PM
I don't agree with that. Google's technology is based on the idea of PR. There's a lot of other factors that go into rankings, but PR is a big one.
I think people get confused between Toolbar PR and the real PR Google uses. The little green bar is not always very accurate, but I think the real PR, which is based on link popularity and quality, is very important for rankings.
One of my pages started dropping in the ranking a couple of weeks ago. Now it just dropped from PR 4 to 2. I suspect Google started devaluing paid links a few weeks ago, and now they're starting to show the results in the Toolbar.
But why does site with no PR got a good ranking than site with higher PR?
AussieWebmaster
10-29-2007, 12:31 PM
because the lower did its on page and other off page elements better for particular words
kjripp
10-29-2007, 03:58 PM
So, what I'm getting from this whole thing is that yes, PR comes into it, but only in the end...it really comes down to your overall SEO strategy (which can include highly relevant, quality paid links).
Am I off base?
~Kari
carair
10-29-2007, 05:21 PM
I dont think PR has very much to do with search results. You can type in almost any phrase and check (http://www.travel-carhire.com) out the top sites listed. They are rarely, if ever in PR (http://www.sun1001.com) order and often you will find PR0 or PR1 listed on first page with much higher PR on second page
So, what I'm getting from this whole thing is that yes, PR comes into it, but only in the end...it really comes down to your overall SEO strategy (which can include highly relevant, quality paid links).
Am I off base?
~Kari
"Selling links muddies the quality of link-based reputation and makes it harder for many search engines (not just Google) to return relevant results."
http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/text-links-and-pagerank/
It seems to me that buying even highly relevant, quality paid links would do the same thing no matter what their PageRank.
Buying highly relevant, quality paid links with high PageRank might even be worse from Google's point of view.
Lots of folks buying the same highly relevant, quality paid links might even boost the sellers PageRank as well as the buyers PageRank as well as the buyers relevancy and therefore cause the whole wide world to come to an end right then and there.:)
As you can see things could get out of control and cause GOOG to be worth like $500 per share.:mad:
Also:
PageRank is a revolutionary and critical element in Google's ranking process but, nonetheless it is only one factor. Google is designed so that no one particular factor has "too much" influence in ranking. For that reason, pages with low PageRank often rank higher than pages with high PageRank.
PageRank is of critical importance because it is scalable and therefore takes the ever expanding size of the web as well as it's structure into consideration. Such calculations are the secret "ingredients" in Google's recipe. Just like a good Martini, you may not always taste the Vermouth but you would definitely know if it were missing!
Bottom line, lots of the best SEO strategies don't include "paid links"!:)