Which domain is better optimized? Dash or No-Dash?

[dentonbros]

Question 1:
For SEO purposes, which domain name would you prefer to own?
iMortgages.com or i-Mortgages.com?

I know that dashes are typically avoided because they hardly get many direct type-in traffic. However, wouldn't the dash make it easier to optimize in the engines?

Question 2:
If you owned both names, how would you direct one to the other? Would you brand "iMortgages", but then optimize "i-Mortgages.com" online and redirect iMortgages to i-Mortgages?

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

At the top of this forum theres a sticky thread about this. I dont know whats in it, but it should be for you.

My opinion is: Buy the one without dashes.

[beu]

At the top of this forum theres a sticky thread about this. I dont know whats in it, but it should be for you.

My opinion is: Buy the one without dashes.
Yep, I 2nd "newkid" with no dashes! :)

[mcanerin]

The dash allows a search engine to parse the keyword "mortgages" in the above example. That's a plus.

However, it's easy to make a mistake and to many people looks unprofessional. That's a minus.

Given the above examples, I would register the one without the dash in preference (and the one with the dash as a backup).

Then, if you want, you can get keywords in the URL by doing something like this:

imortgages.com/mortgage-calculator.asp

...which puts "mortgage" in the URL via the page name. Now you have the best of both worlds - easy domain name, and keywords in your URL.

As for the backup URL, that's for a couple of reasons. First, it helps control domain squatters; second, it's good for tracking purposes. You redirect it with a 301 to the main one, then use it for campaigns you may wish to track (like offline campaigns, etc).

Finally, I just like having backups. When you have been working with computers as long as I have (1979 or so) you learn to like having backups for all sorts of things. Backups are good. :)

Ian

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

The dash allows a search engine to parse the keyword "mortgages" in the above example.

Id like to ask a question about this: I used to assume that the search engines were probably already able to see if there are keywords in a domain name even if it has no dashes in it - as it can also highlight them in the search results.

However, I've also been told that this was (or could be) a wrong assumption as those are two different stories.

Is anything known about this? I would assume that they should be using the same technology when they analyze domain names if they can use it to highlight it in the SERPs, but obviously it's not that easy. So I'm wondering if anybody knows what's really going on with that...?

thx

[beu]

Google doesn’t penalize sites for dashes in the url but, other sites may. As far a using a hyphen Google sees each word as a word but, like mcanerin said it looks bad. Plus if you say, "go to i mortgages dot com" that is where users will go. For the other option you would need to say "i hyphen mortgages dot com" and/or "i dash mortgages dot com". Something to think about!

In the long run, I think no dash is the better idea. Heck, buy both and redirect the dash to the non dash. :)

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Yeah I agree that branding > little plus b/c of a hyphen

What Im wondering though is if there is really any benefit at all from having a hyphen between words.

If Google can highlight keywords in hyphen-less domains when they display the search results can't they do the exact same thing in their algorithm? Which would mean that there is no benefit whatsoever if one has a hyphen in the domain name?

Thats what Im wondering...but I have been told that there was a difference between Google highlighting it in the SERPs and Google using/being able to use that in their algorithm...

[mcanerin]

The highlighting feature happens AFTER Google knows what the keyword is, but not before. In short, it's a completely different function that has nothing to do with the search algo.

To answer your next question (I'm psychic), no, it would not be a good idea for Google to use the same script for the highlighter function for the search algo. Why? Because the database used for searching is not built on the fly, it's stored ahead of time. That's why Google is so fast. So? Well, examples speak louder than words, so here is my favorite example:

Let's say you wanted to buy a pen. Well there is a place on the web where you can buy them called Pen Island. The URL for this place is, naturally enough, www.penisland.net.

If you were Google, exactly how would you be most likely to parse the words in that URL for storage? Would it increase search relevance, or piss off the owner of the site and it's visitors? Is it stored under pen+island, or penis+land?

After the search has been made, of course you can then apply the highlighter to the URL, because you know now you are looking for a pen, not a penis ;)

Ian

[beu]

he..he...he! Now I don't know about you but, that is one example I'm saving. In fact, I might even print it out and hang it on the wall! :D

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Thanks for this explanation and example Ian,

I'm a bit confused now but if I understood correctly you did *not* say that Google cannot understand if there are keywords in a domain name w/o dashes, but you only explained to me why it has nothing to do with the highlighting feature (which I appreciate)

If you were Google, exactly how would you be most likely to parse the words in that URL for storage? Would it increase search relevance, or piss off the owner of the site and it's visitors? Is it stored under pen+island, or penis+land?

Unfortuantely I don't know enough about how search engines actually work (the more technical aspects) to answer this question myself, so I'll just ask you: Would it be impossible..or too complicated/slow/inefficient if they concluded from the linkage data / words found on the website whether the site is about "Penis" or about "Pen" and then store it accordingly?

As for the "can Google understand if there are keywords in a domain name even without dashes" - question, again :-) :

What's up with the "keywords in the domain name make it easy to get keyword rich anchor text". Is this true or a myth (if there are no dashes in it)?

I see sites rank for keyword queries only because they have the keyword phrase in their company's name (and thus domain name). Those are not exact match domains and they have no dashes between their keywords. They're also not completely uncompetitive, though sometimes completely irrelevant to the search query lol.

Apparently Google ranks them b/c they have the keywords in their domain name which is used as their anchor text - and it does that without any dashes seperating the keywords.

Also: How about the exact match domain. Maybe it's yet another myth but from the SERPs Ive seen I would agree that exact match domain names do get brownie points. Google does this without dashes, too.

Wouldn't these be indications for the fact that Google has the technology to understand which keywords are in a domain name w/o dashes?

[mcanerin]

To the best of my knowledge Google does not attempt to parse keywords in domains without some sort of separator (like a dash) to indicate the keywords for ranking purposes. So the answer to your question in bold is NO. :)

However, there are advantages to having keywords in domains and urls, as long as they are separated by "slash, dash or dot".

1. If the keyword is separated by a character Google treats like a space (slash, dash, dot, question mark, etc) then that will be used as a hint as to what the page is about, just like titles, headings, etc.

2. For ranking purposes, it's the whole URL, not just the domain name. You can only have dashes and periods in domains, but other separators are available in urls ( like slashes, etc).

3. One exception to this is that a huge number of people no longer use the address bar in browsers, and just use the search bar for everything. Because of this, search engines will respond with an exact match domain for some queries, since they don't know if the user intends a search or is just trying to type in a domain name. For example, if you type in "IBM" you might want IBM.com or a search about IBM, so the search engine will provide both. For this reason, it's nice to have a domain that is also a search term.

4. Have you ever typed in a URL in a post in this forum and noticed that when you posted it, it was automatically turned into a link? This is common behavior for email, blog, forum and other software. What anchor text was used? The URL, of course. But at this point, the URL is now also anchor text, and is parsed as if it were anchor text. Which means that if you have keywords in your url, you now have keywords in your anchor text. This can have a huge effect on your rankings for that keyword over time. Of course, the keywords need to be separated, so they either need to be standalone or separated by a dash or dot.

5. Finally, in practice, a website called wetdogs.com will have "Wet Dogs" show up in the titles, headers, etc all over the place, and as a practical matter be optimized for that separated term just for that reason. In short, the website separates the terms, not the search engine.

Ian

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

I'll need some time to think about all this (which I dont have right now) so I really understand it. thx for the quick reply!

[beu]

I see sites rank for keyword queries only because they have the keyword phrase in their company's name (and thus domain name). Those are not exact match domains and they have no dashes between their keywords. They're also not completely uncompetitive, though sometimes completely irrelevant to the search query lol.

This is most likely due to inbound links using the company's name as anchor text.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

I guess youre right. I just realized I was jumping to conclusions there as they might be ranking not because of the www companysname.com but perhaps solely because many people also linked to these sites using companysname (not as URL) as their anchor text.