View Full Version : Link Talk
Gotbreaks
06-08-2007, 03:52 PM
I almost feel naked now, without my "Meta Talk" thread!
On to a new subject. -tear-
Concerning links: I've been building up my link list through link exchanges with other sites, and was pleased to find a few sites linking in without a reciprocal link on mine! I thought, Hey! Cool! Free advertisement!
But THEN I thought, what if my page rank is boosted through reciprocal links? Cos if that's the case, then I guess I wanna honor that nice little link that's linking in, right?
So...is it?
It depends on the PR of the sites to which you will be linking. In other words, if you want to link back to sites linking to you only link to those with a higher PR than your own. Also, link to relevant sites but not others.
Marcia
06-08-2007, 07:04 PM
If they're linking to you one way, leave it alone and be grateful.
Reciprocal links are good and have their place if they're good ones, are on topic and have benefit for users, but they are NOT worth more than one way inbound links.
But THEN I thought, what if my page rank is boosted through reciprocal links?But it isn't. Pagerank is boosted by inbound links, not outbounds and not recips.
Marcia
06-08-2007, 08:25 PM
It depends on the PR of the sites to which you will be linking.Nope, the PR of the sites linked out to has no effect for increasing the PR of the site that's linking out, that isn't how PR works.
NewKidOnTheBlock
06-08-2007, 09:29 PM
Basically: the harder a link is to get, the more valuable it is.
And one-way inbound links are usually harder to get than link exchanges.
Many people have been trying to use link exchanges to improve their rankings (=manipulation). The search engines are not dumb and know this, thus they like one-way inbound links usually better than reciprocal links.
Gotbreaks
06-13-2007, 10:32 AM
Je vois.
So then I'll just sit back and "be grateful" -- haha.
AND read more on PR and how it works.
Thanks for all your help!
Nope, the PR of the sites linked out to has no effect for increasing the PR of the site that's linking out, that isn't how PR works.
True, and I'm so sorry! :confused: I said higher but ment lower. This is due to the fact higher ranking sites linking to you boost your site but that boost is all but voided in the event you link back to them.
cryptblade
06-15-2007, 08:49 PM
The simple truth is simply get 1-way links. The ease of that? Totally different story.
Recips don't help if speaking purely for SEO. But as Marcia said, if they make sense for your website, for your users, then don't worry about the SEO, worry about your users.
Example: you have a link from a local chamber of commerce - and you want to proudly display that on your site - and you link to that chamber's website. It helps your users to see that you are the real deal, that the chamber is the real deal, and all is peachy cause your users can now trust you. It makes sense for your users.
The simple truth is simply get 1-way links. The ease of that? Totally different story.
Recips don't help if speaking purely for SEO. But as Marcia said, if they make sense for your website, for your users, then don't worry about the SEO, worry about your users.
Example: you have a link from a local chamber of commerce - and you want to proudly display that on your site - and you link to that chamber's website. It helps your users to see that you are the real deal, that the chamber is the real deal, and all is peachy cause your users can now trust you. It makes sense for your users.
Yes, I think you have the idea! At the same time if they have more PR than you, you may not want to from an SEO point of view.
Marcia
06-16-2007, 02:04 PM
This is due to the fact higher ranking sites linking to you boost your site but that boost is all but voided in the event you link back to them.Are you talking about ranking in the SERPs or PageRank? They're two different things.
At the same time if they have more PR than you, you may not want to from an SEO point of view.Why not?
Are you talking about ranking in the SERPs or PageRank? They're two different things.
Got ya and don't know why this thread is causing me to get tounge tied! I'm talking about PR.
Why not?
PR is based on backlinks and not forward links. If two pages point to each other and another page points to one of them, PR accumulates but is never distributed. This is a looping trap which results in "rank sink". So, I wouldn't take a chance on not gaining PR by linking to pages with higher PR if they are currently linking to your site. If you link to pages with lower PR their PR passing or not passing to you will have little effect on your PR.
This is all based on the fact that a user gets bored in a loop of pages and jumps to a "random page".
So, you may not really be doing what is best for the user after all!
Some say that things aren't always what they seem to be (hint read http://www.freakonomics.com/buy.php).
That said, there is another form of PR called "Custom PR" (personalized results) that can in some ways overcome factors related to loops, rank sink and the "Random Surfer Model".
Either way, for more information and all the details on PR check out:
http://dbpubs.stanford.edu:8090/pub/1999-66
;)
Marcia
06-16-2007, 04:59 PM
Getting back to the original point asked about in the first post:
But THEN I thought, what if my page rank is boosted through reciprocal links? Cos if that's the case, then I guess I wanna honor that nice little link that's linking in, right?Just to recap, you get Pagerank by inbound links, one page on a site linking to another page. You don't gain PR by linking out.
If a site/page links to you, they're voting your page a certain amount of PR. How much PR their link gives you depends on the PR of their linking page and how many other links are on their page. That doesn't change if you link back.
If you link to another site, you are voting their page a certain amount of PR, and how much you PR vote is worth to them depends on the PR of your page and how many links are on it.
There are a LOT of factors that are taken into consideration for scoring where links are concerned - Pagerank is only one of them.
Concerning links: I've been building up my link list through link exchanges with other sites, and was pleased to find a few sites linking in without a reciprocal link on mine! I thought, Hey! Cool! Free advertisement!Reciprocal links are not altogether without value, but one way inbound links are much more valuable. So congratulations, do a happy dance! :)
Marcia
06-16-2007, 09:59 PM
>>only link to those with a higher PR than your own
>>I said higher but ment lowerNeither way has anything to do with rank sink, and whether the PR of the other page is higher or lower does not affect the PR of the page with the outlink - the inbound links to the page with the outlink do.
there is another form of PR called "Custom PR" (personalized results) that can in some ways overcome factors related to loops, rank sink and the "Random Surfer Model".Those may be a neat sounding terms, but it has nothing to do with normal pages that DO link out to other pages. Pages that link to each other (and other pages) are not sink nodes.
Incidentally, just because there's a paper out there theorizing about personalized PR doesn't mean it's being used. And rank sink occurs when linking to a page (file) that can't (or won't ever) link out to other pages - there are no outlinks. That is not the case.
the inbound links to the page with the outlink do.
Right, he wants to add an outbound link to a page with an outbound link pointing back at him.
Pages that link to each other (and other pages) are not sink nodes.
They do in some ways make a loop and as for personal, Google Web History helps deliver personalized search results based on what you've searched for and what sites you visit.
Marcia
06-17-2007, 12:09 AM
This has gotten incredibly off topic, in all fairness it needs to stick with the OP's original question.
They do in some ways make a loop and as for personal, Google Web History helps deliver personalized search results based on what you've searched for and what sites you visit.Why would you think that has anything to do with PageRank?
Yes, you can personalize results somewhat for yourself, but that does not mean Google web search is personalized OR using personalized pagerank. Being able to personalize your own search if you're signed in with a Google ID has nothing to do with how PR is distributed and calculated.
That is irrelevant, the OP is asking about linking back to a site linking to him,and what's been causing the confusion are incorrect statements being made that linking out to a site that's higher or lower in PR affects the PR of the linking page - and it's got nothing to do with it.
What's being addressed is that the PR of a page linked out to has no effect on the PR of the page linking out. The inbound links are what affect the PR of the page linking out.
There is a PR feedback loop in internal link structures, but that isn't the topic of this thread. The original question is really very simple. Basically, the OP wanted to know about one way or recips and it's been answered very simply.
If you want to give the sites which links to you a thank you a great idea is to create a script that automatically adds a link on your page with the last 10-20 pages that has given you visitors. This way you will give the best sites that link to you a reciprocal link which sound pretty fair imho.
Marcia
06-26-2007, 04:38 AM
Xcon, how about the possibility that PPC sites such as "enhancement" and the like will be linking via automated means on a rotating basis to get automated backlinks from sites that wouldn't ordinarily link to them? Wouldn't nofollow be advisable in that case?
Yes that would be a problem, but you would still get visitors from that site and isn't that a site which still gives you a value, not in Ibl but visitors. Then we can discuss if there is a real value of these visitors which comes to a site which they never intended to visit.
The other great thing about this is that they have to keep sending you visitors so they don't loose their link from your page. So I don't think it will be a good business for them to buy visitors with PPC, but I see your point with automated/paid visitors/click fraud etc. some manually correction may be necessary.