Help wanted on CTR's and Phrase Matching

[realgames]

Hi - I am new to all this so please be patient! Answers to the following would really help me sleep at night:

1. I have read that the Rank used to determine where an ad is positioned is determined by the formula:

Max CPC * CTR

No problem with max CPC but what CTR is used out of the following:

CTR for the whole account
CTR for the campaign in which the keyword is used
CTR for the adgroup in which the keyword is used
CTR for the keyword used

2. Having experimented I have found that I need to avoid using broad matched keywords so I have set up a long list of phrase matches and negative keywords. But I am getting some odd results. I sell football tables (foosball tables in American) in the UK. For example in my main adgroup I have the keyword phrases:

"football table"
"football table suppliers"
"UK football table suppliers"

amongst many others. My max CPC is the same for all 3. I rank high in a search for "football table" but very low on a search for "football table suppliers" or "UK football table suppliers". So my question is if someone searches for either of the "football table suppliers" or "UK football table suppliers" which of my keyword phrases is being matched to the search? Logically I would have thought it would default to the one with the highest ranking but this does not seem to be happening so I may be better dropping the last two phrases from my list and that it is bad to have keyword phrases which just add words to another keyword phrase. Can anyone help on this question of 'sub-phrases?

3. One last small question. I have found that if I include the keyword phrases "table-football" and "table football" all the impressions and clicks are listed against "table-football" with none for "table football". It therefore seems that AdWords sees them as being the same keyword phrase. Is this true?

Hope this makes sense and thanks for any help you can provide.

[seobook]

1. the clickthrough rate for your particular keyword
2. the ad which most closely and most specifically resembles the search query

if it is exact match then it would do the exact one...etc.

[realgames]

Thankyou very much for your answer which helps a lot. I do have a couple of follow up though:

1. Does adwords look across your whole account when deciding which keyword is the closest match? Or does it just look at the each adgroup or each campaign. The reason I ask is that I would like to establish some more precise keyword phrases such as "UK table football suppliers" but it seems that by adding them to a list with my already established and high ranking "table football" I will be losing rank and so clicks for searches on the the more precise phrases. So could I move them to a separate campaign to avoid this problem?

2. I have read that adwords gives a new keyword an initial CTR of 1% and that this only reverts to reality once a certain number of impressions have been met. Does anyone know how many impressions this is? The reason I ask is that mine is a very niche market and the number of impressions for the more precise keyword phrases will always be very small. There is therefore a risk that these keyword pharses will never get out of the default 1% CTR bracket. You may say that if the number of impressions is so small then why bother but this is a niche market and individual sales are very valuable so even if it is only one click a week it is well worth having.

[OptimizeOnline]

1. Does adwords look across your whole account when deciding which keyword is the closest match? Or does it just look at the each adgroup or each campaign. The reason I ask is that I would like to establish some more precise keyword phrases such as "UK table football suppliers" but it seems that by adding them to a list with my already established and high ranking "table football" I will be losing rank and so clicks for searches on the the more precise phrases. So could I move them to a separate campaign to avoid this problem?


It looks across the whole account to find whichever keyword has the closest fit. In fact, it is possible to have more than one account 'stitched' together by Google (usually used for large campaigns in which it is necessary for only one ad from an advertiser appearing for a given search) - when that happens Google looks to find the best fit across all accounts.

[OptimizeOnline]

I rank high in a search for "football table" but very low on a search for "football table suppliers" or "UK football table suppliers". So my question is if someone searches for either of the "football table suppliers" or "UK football table suppliers" which of my keyword phrases is being matched to the search? Logically I would have thought it would default to the one with the highest ranking ...



Google will look at the keyword phrases on which you have bids and identify the closest fit for the search - then it will place your ad in rank according to the index of Max bid CPC * CTR.

[OptimizeOnline]

I have found that if I include the keyword phrases "table-football" and "table football" all the impressions and clicks are listed against "table-football" with none for "table football". It therefore seems that AdWords sees them as being the same keyword phrase. Is this true?



Yes, it looks like it. Also, up until a few months ago Google treated broad phrases keywords with different word order (eg 'blue widgets' vs 'widgets blue') differently but changed things so now word order for broad matches is irrelevant. Not that this was much use mind but we saw it happen with a few accounts where such keywords 'slipped through the net' when the campaigns were being set up. I expect the change you highlighted may well have come into effect aruond the same time - although I can't be sure.