UNBELIEVABLE - PR 6 to 0!

[RobHughes]

This is starting to get frustrating - following everything I know to be right... came in 5 mths ago - omitted duplicate content issues, improved SEO immensely, have tons of links (that have been around forever), installed Google Sitemaps, installed Google Analytics, etc, etc, etc...

More recently I removed one website (couple days ago) which was located within this one's file structure to remove any possibility of duplicate content and installed 301 redirects to further correct any problems.

and today I come in to find PR 0 on all pages - site is still indexed by Google (for now) - but I can see why this would happen...

no spammy stuff, no black hat techniques, no quick link strategies, I'm baffled...

any thoughts or should I just wait it out to see if the problem 'corrects itself'...

(see further details below)

[RobHughes]

After reviewing Google Sitemaps - I can see the site I 'pulled' out still has MED-LOW ranked pages and the site itself still maintains a PR 6.

I thought if anything it would be the other way around...

This was how I found things when I arrived...

Site 1 - (links, trustrank, high traffic, etc...) - robots.txt disallowed Site 2
Site 2 - was located within file structure of Site 1 - domain pointed to folder within Site 1

Google cached...
http://Site 1/Site 2 and http://Site 2

A couple days ago - I made the following changes...
Site 1 - remains the same - except Site 2 removed from file structure
Site 2 - now sits in a folder of it's own with separate sitemaps, etc...
301 redirects created from Site 1/Site 2 to point to Site 2 URLs

If anything I thought Site 1 would maintain PR and rankings and Site 2 might start from 0... not the other way around...

(btw Site 2 was developed just last year - Site 1 has been around for MANY years and has well over 1500 inbound links)

[RobHughes]

perhaps I should just throw Site 2 back into Site 1? or will this be the true test if PR really has an effect on SERPs?

If I threw Site2 back into Site1 - would the PR for Site1 be 6 again??

does it matter? funny thing is Site1 has hundreds more quality links and has been around for years longer... confusing...

[rainborick]

This looks like a Google Glitch. Many sites are reporting that the PageRank score shown in the Toolbar has fallen to 0 with no change in their site's performance in Google search results. Some people have speculated that its a sign of the start of an update to the Toolbar PageRank database. Whatever the reason, I think its one of those rare cases when doing nothing is the best course.

[lazlozand]

my main site lost nearly all it's google traffic for a 2-3 month period before a correction happened. i did nothing black-hat, but somehow i was devalued.

it has since come back. i'd recommend you wait this out before making any major changes.


-LZ

[Tamar Weinberg]

There's a PR update going on and sometimes the PageRank does drop before a full update occurs. I would wait it out and not obsess over it -- it will likely come back soon.

[RobHughes]

well I guess you were all right - and I thank you for your comments...

I guess I have to calm down a bit when this happens - I'm aware that PR is not a good measure but an "indicator" - I just get worried when it indicates a huge drop...

This is the second time this has happened to one of my sites in the past two months. The first time it was definitely 'indicating' a problem - which I resolved.

Just now I have noticed that PR has returned to 6 - and on most data-centers... so guess I'll cross my fingers and hope it stays that way... and learn to calm down a little when it happens in the future.

Thanks all!

[lazlozand]

oh, btw, have the number of backlinks showing in your Google sitemap changed?


-LZ

[RobHughes]

Not sure what you mean? "Number of backlinks showing in Google Sitemap"
The Google sitemap reflects only the pages that exist in the site (1)...

Let me know what you mean exactly and I can answer...

[lazlozand]

1. Login to Google Sitemap (Webmaster Tools)
2. Click the Tab Links (External Links should be the default)

"This table provides a list of pages on http://www.example.com/ that have links pointing to them from other sites"

Unfortunately, if you haven't been monitoring this number for a few months, you might not know if you've experienced a recent drop in backlinks.


-LZ

[RobHughes]

ahhh gotcha - in the Google Sitemaps 'account'...

no I check this periodically and back-links haven't changed...

seems it WAS a PR update afterall... PHEW!! (makes your heart skip a beat however - especially after you work hard for results)

thanks though LZ, appreciate it!

[Chris Boggs]

This was definitely a scary ride for some. One very strong directory we often use lost a bunch of PR to zero accross the board, but has a 7 back today for the home page. As I have seen mentioned in other places (I think Barry or Tamar covered it at Search Engine Roundtable), the site now seems to drop one toolbar # for each driectory level down. This should be a good way to test your own site's ability to transfer PR "propoerly."

wow for once a toolbar PR update that actually means something? heavens forbid. :p

[CarrieHill]

Most of my client's sites have had some sort of PR flux issue over the last week. The nice thing about handling multiple clients is seeing things like this happen multiple times - not all at once - so i have something explain to my clients with ruffled feathers. Sometimes it takes longer to soothe feathers than it does for the whole flux to happen start to finish!

I'm not seeing a PR change in anyone yet - do you know if they run the update then change the toolbar? Or - if I see no change in PR after they blip around a bit they wont be changing at all? On the plus side - nobody went DOWN! :)

~Carrie

[RobHughes]

Thanks again everyone!
I certainly appreciate advice and support from SEO's of your caliber!

All the best,
Rob

[sdk1988]

Ive read that some that lost PR have come back to or where they were or even come back higher, how long does that take. I as well, went from PR4 to PR3, with no major changes, home page has not even been touched or changed.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

[RobHughes]

There's really no way to tell. If Google does a PR update - only they (maybe) really know what's going on... we're just along for the ride.

If they've adjusted their alogrithyms - then there is a potential that this is now the 'value' / PR of your website based on those criteria.

But as you can see, there is a chance it could come back. There is no time limit on this - I have seen sites return in a few days (phew) and some take many months to return to their original PR.

Again, keep in mind that this is not an accurate measurement of your site's relevance/importance to Google - only an indicator.

The best advice I can give is to continue on course and build relevant in-bound links and follow advice of the folks here to increase the value of your site.

[sdk1988]

Thank you for your quick response, feel like Im sinking on the Black Pearl here! This position was thrown at me, and with limited knowledge and access, I thought.. Holy smokes, what did I do? Reading and learning here, has been a great help.

Thank you kindly!
Susie

[teacake23]

As I have seen mentioned in other places (I think Barry or Tamar covered it at Search Engine Roundtable), the site now seems to drop one toolbar # for each driectory level down. This should be a good way to test your own site's ability to transfer PR "propoerly."

Chris, one of my sites homepage was PR6, one click and it drops to PR 4, then 3 then 1. Does that suggest a problem with PR transfer within the site? How can If so, how should I address the issue? Is it another needle in a haystack? :rolleyes:

[RobHughes]

This position was thrown at me, and with limited knowledge and access, I thought.. Holy smokes, what did I do? Reading and learning here, has been a great help.

No worries - if it makes you feel any better - that's how I got started and I'm certain many others!

[shakes]

I had a site go from a PR5 to a 1 and a PR2 to a PR 6... Either way my results are still good. My sites are doing very well in the SERPS. I don't really pay attention to PR anylonger... All it does is mess with peoples heads if anything else. ;)

[syone]

I recently dropped in PR on google also. I don't have a sitemap installed. I attempted to install one a few months ago, and when I did an analysis on it, it said that it was inop. I followed the instructions step by step, and the damned thing still wouldn't work, even after reinstalling it. So I left it out. Can anyone offer any help on this subject. I was at a PR 4 and now am at a PR 3. I want to go forward in my ranking. I'm still showing up within the first three pages of my key word searches, usually number three on the first page depending on the search term.

Thanks for any help you may be able to offer.

Irvin

[netidme]

One of my sites dropped from PR 5 to PR 0 at the update. My SEO consultant advised that this is likely due to the fact that its due to the fact that the domain used to redirect to a different site, it has only recently been used as a site in its own right - with unique content. On a more positive note, 3 new-ish sites have been awarded a PR5 - again, thanks to my SEO consultant. I know this has no relevance really in the SERPS - I just obsess over it!

[ldsseo]

Hello there. Alhough I have been an SEO for quite a few years, this is my first post here. Have always been visiting though :-)
Well, one explanation for that sudden drop in PR I can say that one thing that I have seen a few times is that google has sometimes problems finding your homepage. I have seen this happen 2 with sites using a CMS (joomla) to be precise. One site had PR 6 and went down to PR0 That was 2 updates ago
I studies one of those sites for some time and noticed that they had revamped the site months before from static to CMS and well, even though everything was supposed to be right, I mean 301s, google sitemaps, a site index on the page, it seems that the search engines did not like something.
Listen to this. The old URLs were still showing and when you clicked on them, it brought you to the new homepage. I am talking 3 months after.
Recheck your site. Make sure that everything is OK
You could be sharing this same problem

Bill

[ells1worthsnjqv]

...Well, one explanation for that sudden drop in PR I can say that one thing that I have seen a few times is that google has sometimes problems finding your homepage. I have seen this happen 2 with sites using a CMS (joomla) to be precise. One site had PR 6 and went down to PR0 That was 2 updates ago
I studies one of those sites for some time and noticed that they had revamped the site months before from static to CMS and well, even though everything was supposed to be right, I mean 301s, google sitemaps, a site index on the page, it seems that the search engines did not like something.


Greetings well this is interesting. I was looking to use a CMS like Joomla maybe I should see more testimonials. I wonder why the Google would not count the first posters links. Excuse me other peoples links to his site?

[jag]

Partially right, when your PR is 0 then you will notice the change in traffic / SERPS :)

I had a site go from a PR5 to a 1 and a PR2 to a PR 6... Either way my results are still good. My sites are doing very well in the SERPS. I don't really pay attention to PR anylonger... All it does is mess with peoples heads if anything else. ;)

[ldsseo]

Yes, you will see the difference.
Slowly but shurely your rankings dissapear.
I would not blame Joomla 100% on this
there are many things that could have affected it.
Maybe a problem when it got installed for that specific domain, maybe the SEO module. I have created other sites in Joomla and they rank very well

[JayAre]

Hi, this is my first post, but I've been following this forum for quite a while.

The strangest thing also happened to two websites I'm working on. Both came from a client that had SEO done on his website before (not by us). Unfortunately both sites were stuffed with spam-techniques (keywordstuffing below the fold in the same color as the background, keywordstuffing in the noscript-tag,...). Both were scoring quite good in the SERP's.

First thing I did when I started working on the sites was removing the blackhat SEO techniques. A few days later we noticed a serious drop in organic traffic. And when the PageRank update was published a few weeks ago there was also a drop in PR (6 to 4 and 4 to 3) while they hadn't changed over the last year.

Conclusion ? Google still doesn't bother about spam-techniques ? I don't get it...

[ldsseo]

I would say the PR drop was just a timing issue. its not that you cleaned everything and your PR dropped. That was just coincidence. Remember that PR updates are done no matter what you do on your site. It could be that even months back before you did the SEO google already knew that your site did not deserve that PR and it was probably before you even touched the site that, that google had determined that there was going to be a PR drop.
Dont worry about it thought.
If your PR dropped to 0 and did not come back after a few days, then yes, you have a problem. Remember that PR is only cosmetics. Ranking is what really counts. Unless you are a text link broker, I would not worry about it. You can have PR3 and beat a PR7 in search engine results, which of course is the goal.
The only time I look at PR is when I analyze a site. If I see that the PR has dissapeared, and you are not using anything black hat techniques, it just means that there must be some technical/and or indexing issues that need to be reviewed.

If you still have PR and your rankings have dropped, you know 2 things for sure.

1.- Google has no problems indexing your homepage, and it has rewarded you with the PR it deserves
2.- You need to review your SEO. That is the reason your site dropped in rankings.

[JayAre]

Thanks for your reply. The strange thing is that it happened after I removed the blackhat SEO-techniques that were put there by someone else. Hope it gets back to its normal ranking without the spam-techniques...

[ldsseo]

Sometimes people worry too much about the links pointing back from other sites, but forget the importance of the internal linking strategy.
That can make you or break you.

Make sure that you did not remove among the black hat techniques, the internal linking structure.

If its not an internal linking problem, it would be jsut time for google to get used to the new site and figure out where you belong in the rankings

PM me your URL and I can take a look for you.

[JayAre]

Thx, that must be it, the internal linking has changed a great deal because of the removal of the spam techniques.

[ams123]

i had my website page rank 5 and it was not indexing in google was funny huh? well after 4 months it started to index..

[NewB]

Hello Everyone!

I recently been given the job of trying to push a web site up the search engine rankings. I know that having relevent inbound links to your site is important so want to go about doing this.

The problem is i dont see why other sites should want to link to mine, what's in it for them? and how do i go about persuading them? Also i understand some sites have a higher rating than others, is there a way you can check?

This is prob very simple for you guys so any help here is appreciated!!

Thanks

[RobHughes]

Hi NewB - please go to the forum below and do some reading. I think you will find lots of great info and others that were in the same boat as you... and had the same questions...

Link Building:
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/forumdisplay.php?f=44

Good luck!

[ldsseo]

Well, believe it or not, the best way to gain relevant links is by haveing good unique content on your site. Before you know you will find people will start linking to your content without you even knowing about it.
The more relevant content you add, the more people will link to you and therefor you will gain relevancy and that dumb PR bar that many people care about.

If you are targeting people to link to your site by contacting them, then that dumb PR bar comes into place, because they want to see that you already have some PR before linking to you.
If you are working on a brand new domain what I would suggest is to get one good link from a relevant site. Lets see... a PR5 or 6 and that way you will have some PR in the next update, and then people will want to link to you when you approach them.

One last suggestion, dont do recirpocal linking. One way links are way better, so if you have 2 sites and the other webmaster has 2 sites, well you point your site A to his site B and he links his site A to your site B. That way you are getting a link and it is still not reciprocal.

Hope this helps

[NewB]

Thanks guys!!

I contacted a company today and they said they would link to us if we done that it return, i take it then that might not be the best?

[ldsseo]

Just ask them if they have more than one domain.
Explain to them that google gives more value to one way links, and that if they have more than one domain, you could do the A to B one way linking startegy that I explained in my last post above.

[sdk1988]

If a website has sat idle for sometime and no content change, is that a reason for pr drop as well?

[NewB]

Ok, so what if i have 2 domains but they have 1. Can they direct one to my A and i'll direct one from my B? :confused: . Does this have a major difference? Also this PR thing that is so useful but everyone it the know hates, where do you get it and should I use it?

[sdk1988]

The PR is on the google toolbar - you can download the toolbar

[rainborick]

PageRank remains a reflection of the number and quality of the links that point to a page. Only three things cause a drop in the PageRank score of any page.

(1) The loss of links.
(2) Google recalibrates the PageRank scale to accomodate the growing size of the World Wide Web.
(3) A penalty.

If your PageRank score dropped by 1 or 2 points, then the only reasons can be the loss of links and/or Google changing the PageRank scale. It seems pretty clear that they actually did a recalibration during this past update, so now it takes more PageRank strength for each step in the scale from 1 to 10 than it did before. Since the PageRank score we see in the Toolbar is, in essence, a rounded-off interpretation of Google's internal PageRank score, its not surprising that a page that was at the low end of, say, a PageRank score of 4 should end up showing as a PageRank score of 3 following the recalibration.

When Google issues a penalty that results in a loss of PageRank, the PageRank for that site goes to zero or possibly a grey bar (which has apparently returned after an absence of a couple of years) for a total ban. This is the only reason not directly associated with links that affect PageRank.

[idansh]

but so fast, how could it be ?? :confused:

[ells1worthsnjqv]

...
I would not blame Joomla 100% on this
there are many things that could have affected it.
Maybe a problem when it got installed for that specific domain, maybe the SEO module. I have created other sites in Joomla and they rank very well

Ohh okay thank you. This is a good to know. I will make my site and then see what these search engines are interested in for information database. :)

[NewB]

Hey Guys!

There's loads of sites around where you can buy links but are any of them worth it? Can the links be relevant or are they just not worth it?

[rainborick]

Buying links is one of those issues where you're not going to find many clear answers. As things stand today, its clear that paid links are effective in increasing rankings. If they didn't help, the industry would be shrinking instead of growing the way it is. But paid links are a major target of the search engines. Even though Google gets most of the attention in this area because of Matt Cutts' recent discussions of the issue, the other players have the same concern about paid links. In their eyes, paid links 'artificially' distort the search engine results, and they're all looking for ways to combat it. Ultimately, it seems likely that the search engines will have some degree of success in reducing the impact of paid ads on the search results in the near future, so any investment in paid links probably has a limited lifespan as far any ranking benefits are concerned. If you're thinking long term, consider your ads' value simply in terms of their potential for directly generating traffic to your site. Good luck!

[Poonam]

A few people complain of falling page rank even without change in their site. it could be a technical problem. i heard many times on forums that PR 5 switched to 0 or so...
Don't worry it won't affect the traffic and it would be ll good in few days again.

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