Google PPA - Pay Per Action

[webkidsan]

I am in the process of implementing Google PPA (Pay Per Action) for my site any one has any experience with this model with Google?

[rustybrick]

Can you be more specific.

What help document URLs were you given?

Last I heard about it was almost a year ago http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/003988.html

Can you give us more info on what information you were given and if there are specific URLs to Google resources on this?

[AussieWebmaster]

Funny I saw this at Google over three months ago but the last couple of days it has been getting a lot of play.

Guess they have announced it publically.... amazing how they always have a few widget launches up their sleeves when bad press is out and potentially impacting stock prices...

Must be a big coincidence.....

[Relevancy]

Isn't this just for Adsense publishers and will not be part of google search?

Doesn't it sound bad for adsense publishers if thier clicks only count if an action is taken. Cost Per Action better pay higher commissions.

Does it only work if the advertiser has Google Analytics? How else does google track the actions completion?

[vikasamrohi]

I think its in BETA now

[rustybrick]

There were rumors of it months ago. I think very few AdWords users were testing it. But now Google opened the beta to others and publicly announced it.

It is available for both the advertiser side (to create affiliate like actions) and for the publisher side (to show ads for these advertisers).

Yes, it is a US Beta only now.

[abbottsys]

Just yesterday I tried to get into the PPA beta test, but it appears it is currently fully subscribed and I'll need to wait until they open up participation again. I do lead generation, so of course PPA is something I would like to test.

[AussieWebmaster]

There are about 75 users beta testing the model... people who are offering money for an acquisition... I tried a couple of months ago and could not get into the beta...

[lizcamps]

Hi all,
According to what we've experienced when signing up, if you want to participate in the beta for Google PPA you have to sign and fax an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement).

Liz

[AussieWebmaster]

Hi all,
According to what we've experienced when signing up, if you want to participate in the beta for Google PPA you have to sign and fax an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement).

Liz

I have a few of those (NDAs) floating around the Google offices.....

[Discovery]

The set of features; site exclusion/Demo, Geo Targeting/PPA I believe are going to evolve into a single mechanism that will allow advertisers to get back on level playing field with publishers. Up until now publishers had virtually no responsibility to produce quality traffic, or to truly have content that is relevant to the ads. Now with these types of exclusion/inclusion and performance based models publishers will have to perform or they will not earn money.

Ultimately, the smart publishers will be able to make us advertisers compete for their quality traffic. We will need to raise our min PPA limits to get their traffic. And that is just the way it should be.

I think this is a very wise move for Google. Provide the publishers and advertisers with the tools to identify each other, analyze their individual performance and choose which ones we do business with. It employs the help of the masses to reduce click fraud and junk clicks. This alone builds trust within their client base and perhaps can help them avoid expensive litigation in the future.

With companies like Turn.com, Right Media and others creating legitimate networks based on PPA Google had to respond. Yahoo and MSN I am sure have similar offerings being prepared for beta.

Discovery

[webkidsan]

Sorry guys it took me some time to get back to you ... we are still in the process of implementing it ... I am sure by now you know a lot about it. Its not key word based only through content network. The ads are image and text. Its Pay per lead or you can set it up for Pay Per Sale.

Here is the link to the screenshot (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7432334@N05/430795158/) for the interface ...

[webkidsan]

Just to give you guys an update - we have launched the PPA campaign but just a few products to see how effective it is ... we thought it wouldn't be a good idea to go crazy with all the products at this point ... We are using both text ad and banner ads ... will keep you posted

[AussieWebmaster]

Just to give you guys an update - we have launched the PPA campaign but just a few products to see how effective it is ... we thought it wouldn't be a good idea to go crazy with all the products at this point ... We are using both text ad and banner ads ... will keep you posted

definitely keep us in the loop on how things are progressing

[webkidsan]

I have posted another screen shot of the setup and it might be helpful for the advertising partners that participate in Adsense ...

Click Here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7432334@N05/431802428/)

[sussane]

are we allowed to use GOogle PPPA and Adsense on same website ? BTW where can i get the sign up link for Google PPA ?

Best Regards,
Elena Andrews

[searchforce]

Hello,

I posted some thoughts on the new program:

Google is in beta with a program called pay-per-action for the Google content network. Note that this is not for the Search network.

Essentially, advertisers only pay for actions that are completed on the Google Content network thereby making it a pay per performance model. It can be summarized in three single steps:

* Define an action, such as a lead or a sale, that you would like a user to complete on your site and set the amount that you’re willing to pay whether it’s $5 for a purchase or $1 for a newsletter sign-up. You control your spending by setting a daily budget.
* Set up conversion tracking, so that your completed actions can be tracked.
* Pay only when the sale or the sign up is completed.

What is means for advertisers:

* They don’t have to deal with junk clicks and click fraud from content network websites.
* They can manage their budgets and profitability more finely.

What it means for publishers who supply the content to place the ads on:
They must focus on deep, fresh and relevant content to be able to get quality readers. Since they will no longer be paid for clicks and only on performance, they will have a network of offers to choose from. (Google been the youngest among them)

What it means for the future:
This is nothing new for the industry. For years, companies like Commission Junction (Performance network), Quinstreet (buy leads from agency) and Adteractive (buy leads from agency) have been offering this model. Advertising has come a long way from pay for impressions to pay per click and pay for performance. With a major network like Google, jumping into this should be a cause for celebration for advertisers.

[Discovery]

Just a slight critique searchforce

What is means for advertisers:

* They don’t have to deal with junk clicks and click fraud from content network websites.

Yes, this is a huge step in reducing poor quality clicks and perhaps in the strictest sense of the term; click fraud. However, there are plenty of savvy people/companies that know how to defraud affiliate programs.

With that said, we are also very excited about Google jumping into the mix here. Adsense was far to exposed to click fraud, Site targeting to impression fraud, this model should help remedy that situation.

I do wonder though, will publishers be able to opt out of this program just as they can with Site targeting?

Discovery

[CarrieHill]

I do wonder though, will publishers be able to opt out of this program just as they can with Site targeting?

Discovery

I'd love to know the answer to this question also.

~Carrie

[rustybrick]

I do wonder though, will publishers be able to opt out of this program just as they can with Site targeting?

Discovery

Yes. Well, there is no way to get Google PPA on your site, as a publisher, without specially copying and pasting it on there.

Again, this is a referral product, not a contextual product.

It is the same as including a Google Pack Button or Firefox Referral Button from the AdSense Referrals section.

[Discovery]

Excellent, so this will take off just like the Mobile ads and Video ads!

Discovery

[abbottsys]

... We are using both text ad and banner ads ... will keep you posted
Do you have any feedback on the new "text link" ad format that was announced as part of PPA?

[webkidsan]

Text Link seems to be pretty kool ... - Example publisher web page:
Widgets are fun! I encourage all my friends to Buy a high-quality widget (#) today.
From publisher perspective its good because this is giving the publisher more ad space and utilize barely any place on the page since its within the body. But at the same time I am quite sure that there is not going too be any link back value to that text link ... so it would become more difficult to get just regular plain text link ...

[CarrieHill]

So - I'm trying to think through how PPA could work for a "blogger" and I've come to the conclusion that this could work somewhat like Pay Per Post - right? I can put a post up about widgets - then put a PPA text link ad in there - so I get paid to post about widgets if I can get the reader to click and buy a widget from that site?

Am I totally off base? Like I said - I'm thinking this through.

~carrie

[Discovery]

This will get SOOO abused.

If you think garbitrage is bad, what are they going to do with this offering?

How is google going to control what is being said with inline text around the ad link and determine that it is not misleading. How can they ensure that the advertiser will now not have their service or products misrepresented? False advertising claims and more. Perhaps I'm not seing the whole picture here, but it looks to me like a very risky proposition on the advertisers end.

I heard Oprah say this widget (http://#) has changed her life and the company is giving it away right now at widgets.com (http://#).

You can just imagine the fake testimonials, reviews, articles, blogs with deceptive and misleading content full of these links. When the publisher finally gets caught. They simply deploy 100 template sites that they have premade and go after it again.

Google has to provide true site exclusion in order for any of these ad programs to be successful.


Discovery

[webkidsan]

Just thought I give you guys an update how the PPA campaign is coming along, so far I am not too thrilled, although the interface is nice but one of the few things I don't like is that the payout is only flat $ amount and I cannot allocate %. and also I have to create different action for each product since each action has an associated payout and I cant link 12 products to the same action until I want to pay the same amount for all those products ... since most of my products are priced differently and I want to have a different payout for each ...

As far as how effective this is, since its beta there are not too many publishers either so I am not getting too many traffic yet ...

[webkidsan]

So - I'm trying to think through how PPA could work for a "blogger" and I've come to the conclusion that this could work somewhat like Pay Per Post - right? I can put a post up about widgets - then put a PPA text link ad in there - so I get paid to post about widgets if I can get the reader to click and buy a widget from that site?

Am I totally off base? Like I said - I'm thinking this through.

~carrie

That would be the case that you get paid based on how the advertiser has defined it ... it can be Pay Per Sale or Pay Per Lead and so on ...

and you are so right discovery that its going to be misused like one can not imagine and that was a very good example :) ... here is how Google define this 'Text Link Ad'

"Text links are brief text descriptions that take on the characteristics of a publisher's page. Publishers can place them in line with other text to better blend the ad and promote your product (Max 90 characters)

[CarrieHill]

I don't think I was very clear - I'm not into AdSense, or "Garbitrage" (love the term) - I was playing devil's advocate there for a sec.

Interesting and I hope Google can guarantee some sort of close monitoring to make sure our clients' products are not being misrepresented, etc.

[overture1928]

@webkidsan

Thanks for the update.. I'm actually going to try and set up the PPA today, and you gave me insights about this... Let you guys know if anything new comes up..

Keep us posted!

[Mel66]

one of the few things I don't like is that the payout is only flat $ amount and I cannot allocate %. and also I have to create different action for each product since each action has an associated payout and I cant link 12 products to the same action until I want to pay the same amount for all those products ... since most of my products are priced differently and I want to have a different payout for each ...

As far as how effective this is, since its beta there are not too many publishers either so I am not getting too many traffic yet ...
I agree with this. I had to set the per-sale amount pretty low, because I only get one amount for my entire account. When you have a diverse product line and different economics for each product, a flat rate for everything doesn't make sense. A % would be much better. Better still would be a different amount (or %) for each product.

We haven't gotten much traffic yet either. I'm not unhappy with the program - not happy either, just indifferent until I see if we get any conversions!

Melissa

[Tlaserx]

You know the PPA ads will be like "sweet candy" for high ticket sellers. I do some work for a company that sells $30,000 machines. Can you picture PPA ads that are offering $586 per for a completed lease app that leads to a purchase?

That's very doable. This companies typical sales cycle is 90 days and a gigantic payout for a purchase would be just fine with them. So I'm thinking the net effect on the industry is that the publishers will only want to display the big ticket payouts and the low payout actions will get lost in the rush.

Just try to get a publisher to advertise your $4 pen set when they could hook up with a car dealership action ad and possibly make as much as the sales rep that sells the car.

Car sales is reputation based you know. If your favorite blogger raved about a car, maybe even built a custom page around you would be more inclined to buy it, right? This will be serious money if they roll it out fully and may have implications for all professional sales reps in the years to come.

In ppc now, the publisher has no way to refuse the small ticket ads. When they have that power, watch out!

[abbottsys]

.... Can you picture PPA ads that are offering $586 per for a completed lease app that leads to a purchase?...
Good point. "Lead generation" is a massive industry and PPA is targeted there. Also, imagine combining the new text link ad format with PPA. A publisher would not have to display an ad box, but could pitch products in regular page content. This opens a whole new world of "editorial advertising" or "product placement" or "advertorials" or whatever you want to call them. How is the industry going to react when text link ads come out of beta and go live? This is possibly a *huge* shift in the industry.

[Mel66]

Great discussion, very interesting points indeed.

Cartoon Barry (rustybrick) has a funny but sorta-true illustration of such a pitch. I laughed out loud, but he's got a point. The comments are good as well.

http://www.cartoonbarry.com/2007/03/telling_a_story_through_google.html

Melissa

[Tlaserx]

PPA seems like an amazing way for one sales rep to edge out the other sales reps in their office. Most companies provide leads, yes, but as a commissioned sales rep. this program would allow reps with PPA ads to get new leads before they get put in rotation.

With PPC, there was always risk for independent sales reps. to buy ads becuase they would not know if the customer will buy. PPA eliminates the risk involved in ad buying, thus making Google's product (ads) more easily purchased.

I love this concept! The customer buys first, then you pay for the lead after you've charged their credit card and earned your profit. As SEM's we'll have new markets open up by selling our expertise to independent sales reps. instead of just the companies they work for. We'll take our management fees of course. :cool:

[psurplus]

I applied recently and just got accepted today, exciting! I've spent the last few hours building out campaigns, adgroups, adding keywords, and ad copy for text ads. I will hopefully have images from our designer by the end of the week. I will let you know how the test goes (no data showing yet). I had no NDA mentioned to me but I'll be a gentleman and keep my mouth closed for the time being on all the details. Its very much the same process as creating standard keyword campaigns.

Features I'd like to see:
-ability to import exisiting campaign ad copy into PPA campaigns
-ability to set PPA amount as a % instead of a flat amount.

[abbottsys]

I applied recently and just got accepted today, exciting!...
Congrats! Are you using the new "text link" ad format? Can you give us any feedback about setting up these ads in adwords?

[webkidsan]

I have this campaign running for a while now ... haven't gotten much of any traffic ... ofcourse there has to be enough publisher to take up your ad and I think its going to take a little bit of time before ppl will be getting high traffic. From an advertiser point of view this PPA seems to be better than PPC but from publishers perspective I think they would prefer serving PPC ads ...

[texasweb1]

Is this is a mandatory program. Maybe I don't understand the program but if it means my pay will be based on the action of the customer there is no way I will keep adsense, and I believe that most publishers will drop adsense like a hot potato and go with direct advertiseing. Pay for Action does not generate a lot of revenue. Commission Junction which is based on click for action never paid a lot in commissions. Most income comes from adsense. Advertisers have to understand that the more they push publishers into the corner the less they will opt to carry their advertisements. The amount most publishers make for now per click is beginning not to be worth it.

[AussieWebmaster]

Is this is a mandatory program. Maybe I don't understand the program but if it means my pay will be based on the action of the customer there is no way I will keep adsense, and I believe that most publishers will drop adsense like a hot potato and go with direct advertiseing. Pay for Action does not generate a lot of revenue. Commission Junction which is based on click for action never paid a lot in commissions. Most income comes from adsense. Advertisers have to understand that the more they push publishers into the corner the less they will opt to carry their advertisements. The amount most publishers make for now per click is beginning not to be worth it.

it is not going to be mandatory... just an added part of adsense... like image ads etc.

[psurplus]

My PPA campaign has been running since mid/late last week. I added the conversion tracking code (which Google says is seperate from any Analytics or other AdWords tracking code) on Friday. I have not had any conversions yet (my cost per action is alright... considering raising it.). I have several ad groups setup with different keywords for the publisher to search for, with specific ads targeted for those kw's. I have created some "focused" ad groups for specific product types we sell, as well as one generic ad group for our market/niche. I have both text ads and image ads for the generic ad group. I have 3 different sized images, and 2 text ads. I have text ads for the other focused ad groups. My initial generic text ad has the most impressions of all. I have only received a handful of clicks thus far and no conversions. I hope to keep building more campaigns/ad groups and hopefully more publishers will get onboard.

From an advertiser point of view this PPA seems to be better than PPC but from publishers perspective I think they would prefer serving PPC ads ...-- I agree with this and hope that Google can find a way to bring everyone to a happy middle ground.

[roseberry99]

Hey webkidsan (or anyone else that might know),

I set up my first PPA campaign yesterday. One thing that is confusing me is how the "actions" are not associated with the campaign in any way. So if i set up multiple campaigns, how do I tell the campaign which action I want to be achieved (along with associated pay out). I realize that for some this may not be an issue, but most all of our products throughout various website finish on the same receipt page (i'm obviously tracking sales) so there are different amounts I am willing to pay out based on what campaign it came from.

If anyone has any insight, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks

[Mel66]

Unfortunately, you (currently) can't set different amounts for different campaigns. You get one amount for everything.

This is one of the negatives of this program. I was forced to set my amount very low because of this. I've sent this feedback to G - they should allow the amount per action to be set at the campaign level, if not the ad group level.

Melissa

[roseberry99]

Thanks Melissa. I sent the same feedback. I am sure we're not the only ones :)

[AussieWebmaster]

Unfortunately, you (currently) can't set different amounts for different campaigns. You get one amount for everything.

This is one of the negatives of this program. I was forced to set my amount very low because of this. I've sent this feedback to G - they should allow the amount per action to be set at the campaign level, if not the ad group level.

Melissa

It is something they will add eventually but I think for the short term they want to get the easy bugs out before confounding the variables.

[Ramya]

I have created a PPA ad.Iam getting only impressions but no clicks.Can we view the ad in google content network for PPA campaign. Can any one tell me what could be the reason that my ad is not receiving any clicks?.should i bid the value high?How to specify a action?

[AussieWebmaster]

I have created a PPA ad.Iam getting only impressions but no clicks.Can we view the ad in google content network for PPA campaign. Can any one tell me what could be the reason that my ad is not receiving any clicks?.should i bid the value high?How to specify a action?

I would try a few ads to see if you can improve the chances of a click

[Shmuel]

Using PPA, I'm targetting one specific area. I have 3 text & 3 text link ads. So far since it's been running, 153 impressions. 0 clicks. Not know where these ads actually are makes it difficult to effectively manage it.

And on top of that, what I'd really like to know is how many publishers have actually picked my ads up.

For my niche, I think it will be difficult to see any good results, if any. And I think that's what it's going to come down to...what you are selling; some merchants will just have better 'luck' than others, just because of what they sell.

[Shmuel]

Hey webkidsan (or anyone else that might know),

I set up my first PPA campaign yesterday. One thing that is confusing me is how the "actions" are not associated with the campaign in any way. So if i set up multiple campaigns, how do I tell the campaign which action I want to be achieved (along with associated pay out). I realize that for some this may not be an issue, but most all of our products throughout various website finish on the same receipt page (i'm obviously tracking sales) so there are different amounts I am willing to pay out based on what campaign it came from.

If anyone has any insight, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks

I asked the same question to my google team. In short, where ever your action page is, that will be what determins the action. If you have one set for just signing up for a newsletter and another for making a purchase, which ever one is completed, is the associated action. If both are? I THINK you pay for both. I have no proof of that, and I'm just stating my assumption.

[Ramya]

I have created a PPA ad where iam getting only impressions but no clicks.Can you tell me vat could be the reason for this? how is my action specified.If suppose i have a action called download will that do well ?

Please help me on this.

[quench]

For some reason I can not create a PPA campaign. Dunno what the deal is.

I have another question...

As an AdSense advertiser, how can I look for these offers. I would be quite inclined to set up pages just for CPA ads. Can I set up AdSense ads just for CPA? Is there a way to look up high value ones?