V7N Web Directory :: Poor Submission Reviews

[FreeAgent]

One of my current clients has a performing arts based website. About two weeks ago I submitted their site to the V7N Web Directory among others. Today, while checking to see if all my submission have propagated I noticed that V7N had added my clients site to a totally irrelevant category that had much less search engine visibility.

Shame on you V7N... Shame on you...

So, what did we learn today?


Always keep a watchful eye on where your paid links get placed
V7N is getting a lump of coal from me for Christmas

[Chris Boggs]

I was going to axe this thread per http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=10226, but realized that V7N is a very legitimate directory that should be on the "OK to discuss list."

Hopefully someone will be able to come in and tell you how to request a category change, prior to your wasting any money on charcoal, FreeAgent. :p

[FreeAgent]

I was going to axe this thread per http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=10226, but realized that V7N is a very legitimate directory that should be on the "OK to discuss list."


Yes, I checked the rules before posting. ;)


Hopefully someone will be able to come in and tell you how to request a category change, prior to your wasting any money on charcoal, FreeAgent. :p

I know how to request a category change (I did that right before I posted this thread). I just wanted to point two things...

1.) Always keep an eye on your paid links.

2.) V7N needs to do a better job with their submission reviews because of the fact that they are a very legitimate directory.

[chicgeek]

Hi FreeAgent,

Each submission to V7N is held to strict editing standards by individuals, with careful attention to the link's description and category.

I believe I am aware of the submission you are referring to, but could you point it out just can ensure I have the right reference?

I hope we can get this sorted out.

Laura

[chicgeek]

In the interest of clearing this up quickly, I'm going to speculate that your client's site is the talent agency site that we had approved two weeks ago. It was submitted to the Arts > Performing Arts.

When we consider submission placement for V7N, we first consider a site's intention. If it is selling items, then it is placed in Shopping. If it is a site that provides a service or is the website for a business, it is placed in Businesses and Services. The Arts category is reserved for information sites, venues, exhibits, etc.

The site in question is a talent agency, a business that provides its clients with access to employment. It was placed in Businesses and Services > Employment, as was deemed most appropriate for the site's purpose. As editor, I feel the category is entirely relevant; the most relevant according to our above guidelines.

I hope that now clarifies the category placement of your client's site. We are always happy to clear up issues with those who submit to our site - there is a dedicated board for problems on our forums and I invite all submitters to share their issues there. If you are still dissatisfied with the link placement, we can also negotiate a refund, if that is your request.

Laura

[FreeAgent]

The site in question is talentrock.com. Talent Rock is a company that hosts Talent Search Events for models, actors, singers, dancers and comedians. Talent Rock is NOT an agency, scout or talent employer.

So, in a nut shell Talent Rock is a "traveling venue" for various types of performing artists. Anyone that takes a good look at their website can figure that out, and that is why Talent Rock is listed under "Performing Arts" in every directory I have submitted them to thus far.

Let me pull an example from another well established directory...

http://botw.org/top/Arts/Performing_Arts/

I can point out many others if needed.

[FreeAgent]

Also, here is a copy of an email that Talent Rock had sent to V7N after I noticed where their link was placed. I was also told that they are yet to get a response back from V7N about this matter.
V7,

We submitted our site to your directory about two weeks ago. Today, I noticed that our website was place in http://directory.v7n.com/Top/Business_and_Services/Employment/.

This directory category is totally irrelevant to our website. Talent Rock is a talent search event company for actors, singers, models, dancers and comedians. We are not a talent employer or an agency and by law we can’t list ourselves under the category you placed us under. The category we should be placed under is http://directory.v7n.com/Top/Arts/Performing_Arts/. Can you please fix this problem for us?

[JohnScott]

Talent Rock is an organization that hosts unique talent search events and industry workshops for aspiring actors, models, dancers, comedians and singers.

This description to me indicates that it is an employment resource (not a scount or agency, but a service which supports the same) for aspiring talent.

The category which it was submitted to was ( http://directory.v7n.com/Top/Arts/Performing_Arts/ ) for actual performing arts information. This website does not offer performing arts information; it is a business which supports that industry.

Most credible directories would list a website of this nature under the /Business/ category rather than the /Arts/ main category.

For example:
http://dmoz.org/Business/Arts_and_Entertainment/
vs
http://dmoz.org/Arts/Performing_Arts/

Yahoo Directory, with probably the most professional category structure of any web directory, draws that distiction as well:

http://dir.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Business_to_Business/Entertainment_and_Media_Production/Talent_and_Crew/
vs
http://dir.yahoo.com/Arts/Performing_Arts/

To draw a parallel most SEO's can more easily understand, an SEO information site would be listed under /Internet/World Wide Web/ etc.

But a site offering SEO services would be listed under a Business/ or Business_and_Industry main topic.

If you go to any credible, professional directory, you will find this. Most have categories with the same names, but under different main categories. For example, Yahoo directory has an SEO category under /Business (http://dir.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Business_to_Business/Marketing_and_Advertising/Internet/Promotion/Search_Engine_Optimization__SEO_/), and an entirely different SEO category under /Internet (http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/World_Wide_Web/Site_Announcement_and_Promotion/Search_Engine_Optimization__SEO_/).

A basic rule of thumb is, if you're offering a service, it'll go under /Business/. If you're offering a product, it'll go under /Shopping. If you're offering information (and not information about your product or service), it'll go under Arts, Computers, or one of the other main categories.

From the fact that you have a refund policy, I will assume that you sell a service, and as such belong under the Business main category.

I will grant you this - the category your site was placed in is not an ideal category. That category is more for general employment services. We are building the V7N Directory on submissions; that means we create new categories as needed. We do not, for example, have a category for wood-burning stove repairmen in Wenatchee, Washington. If a wood burning stove repairman in Wenatchee, Washington submits a site, we would place it in a somewhat-related category and then create a category to match at a later date.

Our category structure most closely resembles Yahoo's. So I expect that we will create a /Arts_and_Entertainment/Talent_and_Crew/ category under Business in the near future.

If that is unacceptable to you, just PM me the transaction ID number and I'll gladly refund your payment.

Also, here is a copy of an email that Talent Rock had sent to V7N after I noticed where their link was placed. I was also told that they are yet to get a response back from V7N about this matter.

Hi FreeAgent, what email address was that sent to? We respond to most emails within 24 hours, but if we do not receive an email it's hard to respond. :)

And finally, I would like to say thank you for submitting to v7n in the first place. I wish your experience had been more mutually fulfilling, but the directory business is prone to misunderstandings, especially when category placement is involved.

[FreeAgent]

JohnScott, do me a favor and take a closer look at the two sites that are currently listed under (http://directory.v7n.com/Top/Arts/Performing_Arts/). Both sites offer information as well as paid services and products.

The first site (American Ballet Theatre - www.abt.org) offers performing arts education and training services (http://www.abt.org/education/default.asp) as well as having an online store that sells products (http://www.abt.org/Store/default.asp).

The second site (Salsa Indy - www.salsaindy.com) offers Salsa Lessons (http://www.salsaindy.com/indianapolis_salsa_lessons.php), and they also run many salsa dancing events (http://www.salsaindy.com/events.php) that people need to pay to get into.

What makes these two sites any different than Talent Rock? Talent Rock offers information about performing arts as well as paid services just like the two companies listed above. If Talent Rock can't be listed under (http://directory.v7n.com/Top/Arts/Performing_Arts/) the other two should be removed as well.


If that is unacceptable to you, just PM me the transaction ID number and I'll gladly refund your payment.

I only accept relevant link placement, so if we can't be placed under (http://directory.v7n.com/Top/Arts/Performing_Arts/) I will be seeking a refund.


Hi FreeAgent, what email address was that sent to? We respond to most emails within 24 hours, but if we do not receive an email it's hard to respond.

The email was sent to help@v7inc.com on 12/11/2006 at 2:46pm.

[JohnScott]

I only accept relevant link placement, so if we can't be placed under (http://directory.v7n.com/Top/Arts/Performing_Arts/) I will be seeking a refund.

I took the liberty of finding that transaction ID and have just processed a refund. :)

JohnScott, do me a favor and take a closer look at the two sites that are currently listed under (http://directory.v7n.com/Top/Arts/Performing_Arts/). Both sites offer information as well as paid services and products.

There are very few sites that do not cross their category lines. For example, our web hosting services site (http://www.v7inc.com) also offers information such as cpanel tutorials (http://www.v7inc.com/tutorial.php) . But that does change the fact that it is primarily a commercial services oriented site.

Although we've refunded the submission fee, I will attempt to get a more suitable category created and your site moved there in the near future.

Hope you have a great Christmas. :)

[FreeAgent]

Thanks for the refund, but you are not going to get off the hook that easily, Mr. JohnScott.


There are very few sites that do not cross their category lines. For example, our web hosting services site (http://www.v7inc.com) also offers information such as cpanel tutorials (http://www.v7inc.com/tutorial.php) . But that does change the fact that it is primarily a commercial services oriented site.

Ok, so the American Ballet Theatre, Salsa Indy and Talent Rock all offer paid services as well as performing arts information. The primary focus on all three of these sites are their paid services. Due to this they all cross their performing arts (information only) category lines, so my question still remains... How is it that American Ballet Theatre and Salsa Indy can be listed under performing arts in the V7N Web Directory and Talent Rock can not?


Although we've refunded the submission fee, I will attempt to get a more suitable category created and your site moved there in the near future.

That is very noble of you, but as Talent Rock stated in their email to V7N...


"We are not a talent employer or an agency and by law we can’t list ourselves under the category you placed us under."

Being that performing arts is currently the most relevant category for the Talent Rock website can you list their link there until you create a more suitable category for their website as well as American Ballet Theatre and Salsa Indy? If not can you please remove the Talent Rock link from your directory?


Hope you have a great Christmas.

How do you know if I celebrate Christmas or not? It's always a better choice to wish people a Happy Holidays.

[jimbeetle]

He, he, if you remove one of the most renowned ballet companies in the States from the performing arts category because it sells tchotkes and offers ballet lessons you'd have to remove the Louvre from the museum section because it has a gift shop and offers art lessons.

What does payment have to do with whether or not a performing arts organization is a performing arts organization?

Just my two cents, John Scott, but Salsa Indy definitely does not belong in performing arts, there are no performances, just folks getting together to salsa. Something along the lines of Entertainment > Nightlife > Dance Clubs and Events would be much more correct.

Hey, why not two cents more? FreeAgent, modeling is not considered a performing art.

[JohnScott]

I'll definitely be looking at moving a few sites around and adding a few more categories. We don't have thousands of categories at the moment because we're still rather new and because we didn't want thousands of empty categories.

I'll be back later to comment on other issues brought up by this thread.

Happy holidays. :)

[mcanerin]

This conversation has reached the point where much of it is best handled directly via email or PM.

Please move the remainder of this offline, unless it is dealing with general directory categorisation issues, rather than personal ones like refunds, specific sites, etc.

Ian

[FreeAgent]

He, he, if you remove one of the most renowned ballet companies in the States from the performing arts category because it sells tchotkes and offers ballet lessons you'd have to remove the Louvre from the museum section because it has a gift shop and offers art lessons.

Yes, the American Ballet Theatre is a very large and very well known organization, and I personally feel that they should be listed under performing arts. Talent Rock on the other hand is a very small and not very well known organization that offers similar services and information. So, in terms of relevancy both organizations fit under performing arts.


What does payment have to do with whether or not a performing arts organization is a performing arts organization?

Nothing. JohnScott, stated in his first post that...


"The category which it was submitted to was ( http://directory.v7n.com/Top/Arts/Performing_Arts/ ) for actual performing arts information. This website does not offer performing arts information; it is a business which supports that industry."

I was just pointing out that Talent Rock offers paid services as well as information about performing arts, so if Talent Rock can't be listed under performing arts because it offers paid services than neither should the American Ballet Theatre.


Hey, why not two cents more? FreeAgent, modeling is not considered a performing art.
I known modeling is not considered a performing art, but acting, singing, dancing and stand-up comedy are.

[mick g]

this thread is one of the biggest issues over nothing I have ever seen on SEW, it's a site submission to a directory what got placed in the wrong category and your making this into the major crime of the year, a mistake was made and you got your money back, now move along and get over it

[Chris Boggs]

I have to agree with mick on this one. Thread closed and as Ian asked previously please take the conversation offline. Thanks John Scott for remaining gracious and civil.