Seo / Sem

[bethabernathy]

SEO / SEM: What is the difference?

[rcjordan]

To me, SEM generally includes the pay-for-traffic crowd --adwords, overture, etc.

[seobook]

seo = free organic traffic

sem = ppc and paid inclusion (perhaps may also include seo stuff)

[Jill Whalen]

Search Engine Marketing (SEM) is any kind of marketing that involves the search engines.

As a subset of SEM you have PPC Advertising, and you have Search Engine Optimization (SEO).

[bethabernathy]

PPC Advertising, but what about Paid Inclusion, part of SEO or SEM subset? Seems like it would be SEO as you won't get anywhere with Paid Inclusion w/o SEO?

[Fear The Pie]

It seems everything falls under SEM. Then paid-inclusion be under SEO.

[steve sardell]

In any new industry there is an evolving jargon. At times, the evolution of this jargon creates numerous definitions for the same acronym, word or phrase. This is exemplified by the first three answers to the simple and basic question. SEO / SEM: What is the difference? All three answers differ.

MY definitions may differ from others

Search Engine Optimisation or SEO is the acronym used too define the methods employed to improve the ranking of a page within the search engine results,i.e. making a page list highly in the natural or editorial listings

SEO is a root of SEM

Search Engine Marketing or SEM is the acronym used to define the methods of attracting visititors or site guests once one has the positon in the search engine,i.e. marketing a website via search engines. Although these may be optimized methods they also may include non optimized methods like paid ads.

Certain disciplines of course will fall into both sectors. As an example SE copywriting is done for both placement and ROI: linking is done for placement improvement and for visibility and branding.

Coming from a more traditional marketing background outlook, I have always looked at these acronyms as being confusing and an incorrect choice of words. We do not optimize search engines nor do we markert search engines, but that is what the words do imply, at least from my inference. I avoid the issue by explaining to potential clients I do website advising and website marketing. SEO and SEM by definition are primarily concerned with the search engines, and there is much more to marketing a website than the search engines.

[Jill Whalen]

Steve, what do you mean by SEO is a root of SEM? Do you mean that SEO falls under SEM, or SEM falls under SEO? (Or something else all together.)

[NFFC]

SEO is making sure your users can find the website they are looking for in the way a lot of them want to find it.

SEM is for people unable to make sure your users can find the website they are looking for, so they have to pay.

For me the root, or top level catagory is Publishing.

Publishing

SEO - Links - Press - Articles - Alliances - Repeat Visitors - Profile

SEM - PPC

Imho SEM is SEO's bitch, but they both have to bow to the power of the publisher [webmaster]. A good publisher will use both SEO and SEM and whatever other services they need to ensure that their message reaches the widest available audience.

One thing is for sure, at least in my head, SEO is not a subset of SEM, its the other way round.

[Mikkel deMib Svendsen]

SEM is for people unable to make sure your users can find the website they are looking for, so they have to pay.

What about companies that simply CAn make a profit from using paid channels and just want to grab that extra profit along with any (probably greater) profits made fro ("free") SEO?

That has nothing to do with ability to be found but pure greed :)

[mcanerin]

I've always considered SEO to be a sub-set of SEM, which is a sub-set of Internet Marketing. Confused yet? Me too, but that's because the terms are often used interchangably.

This is JUST the way I look at things, but I'll present it to the academy for consideration.. ;)

Marketing
>Traditional marketing (I won't expand this, but the list is long)
>Internet Marketing
-->Content Advertising (articles, press releases, etc)
-->Banner/Text Advertising
---->PFI
-->SEM
---->SEO
---->PPC

Ian

[bwelford]

Ian, I think you have it spot on. I don't see how anyone could suggest any different taxonomy. :)

[bethabernathy]

This is slightly off topic, although I thought it was interesting:

"The report also gives the first estimate I've seen of SEO spending as opposed to paid ad spending -- $200 million versus $3.3 billion. In other words, the entire search spending pie is estimated at $3.5 billion -- and non-paid search marketing, SEO, gets about 6 percent of this. Information about buying the guide can be found here:

http://nl.internet.com/ct.html?rtr=on&s=1,12ld,1,evhi,cusb,4na2,28pw "

From the SEW newsletter (not sure if the link will work).

[Mikkel deMib Svendsen]

Personally I am seing it this way, which is maybe not so different from some of you, but just show how we all have made little tweaks to it because we have no set definitions for things.... yet

Search Engine Marketing - a subset of Online Marketing, that again is a subset of Marketing.

However, sometimes it makes sense to look at it from another angle. It could be like this:

- Direct marketing
- Branding marketing

or

- Interruption marketing
- Response marketing

It really depends on what the use is.

Anyway, below Search Engine Marketing comes in my mind, everything that serves the purpose of doing online marketing in search engines: SEO, SEM, Paid Placement, Directories etc.

[steve sardell]

Hi Jill,

What I mean by root in that context is: SEO is the lower supporting base of SEM. It is an attached and component part that feeds SEM. I know at times I get too figurative.

[steve sardell]

Ah ah Ian, for once we may disagree, but I may be vastly under armed
---->PFI
-->SEM
---->SEO
---->PPC
IMHO I place PFI under SEO and PPC above it. PPC needs good marketing copy while PFI needs good SEO copywriting.

[mcanerin]

That's a good point Steve. I think you are probably correct, now that I look at it.

Also while I was looking at this, I'm not even sure that Internet Marketing should be separate from Traditional Marketing. I think you could probably just treat Internet Marketing the same as Radio, TV, Magazines, etc.

I think we are past the days where it was so new that it was treated as a totally different medium. In short - I don't think there is even a need for the term "traditional marketing" It's all marketing - just to different media, each one with different strengths and weaknesses.

So my new (edited) list would be (presented humbly for your consideration):

Marketing
>Television, Radio, Magazines, etc
>Internet Marketing
-->Content Advertising (articles, press releases, etc)
-->Banner/Text Advertising
---->PPC
-->SEM
---->SEO
---->PFI

Ian

[steve sardell]

I think we are past the days where it was so new that it was treated as a totally different medium. In short - I don't think there is even a need for the term "traditional marketing" It's all marketing - just to different media, each one with different strengths and weaknesses. I agree, and like you hope we are past those days. Infact, I immediately will rid myself of the term *traditional maketing*. It has now become archaic. One of the beauties of lanuage is its ever evolving nature.

BTB the list suits me just dandy :)

[Jill Whalen]

Ian, why take the PPC out of SEM? That doesn't make sense to me.

I would be more inclined to think it goes something like this:

Marketing
>Television, Radio, Magazines, etc
>Internet Marketing
-->SEM
---->Banner Ads at SEs
---->PPC
---->SEO
------->PFI

Not sure where AdSense fits in, except I guess as a subset of PPC?

[bethabernathy]

Not sure, but if you are going to start in on Internet Marketing, as a whole, then you would probably want to include:

Email advertising
Brand based website development (which was mentioned above)

:)

[rustybrick]

don't forget affiliate marketing.

[Joseph Morin]

Or contextually based advertising (not just AdSense)
Media buys
Landing Pops
Adware
CoRegistration

Or anything else they try and push on us at Ad:Tech :)

[Joseph Morin]

Shoot, might as well throw in:

Analytics
Usability

They are all part of the whole Internet Marketing schema

[sugarrae]

When I hear SEM I also think of the paid crowd - but this can also include those who pay for SEO. You can be an SEM without using SEO, so I definitely wouldn't consider them as being one in the same.

[Anthony Parsons]

Beth,

If you included other forms, such as email campaigns as you mentioned, then using Jills breakdown, it would go something like:

Marketing
>Television, Radio, Magazines, etc
>Internet Marketing
-->SEM
---->Banner Ads at SEs
---->PPC
---->SEO
------->PFI
-->Email Campaigns
-->Affiliate Marketing
-->etc etc etc

Ian and Jill pretty much hit it on the head. Looking at it realistically, where would SEO Copywriting fit into it? SEO Copywriting is a two fold effort. One for incorporating key terms for the search engines, and the second incorporating those key terms within a sensible well written copy that will appease your user to purchase.

So, should we in actual fact call it "SEM Copywriting" instead of "SEO Copywriting" as SEO technically falls under the SEM category and it is a two fold appreciation?

[mcanerin]

I really like the list so far, and I think it's a pretty good taxonomy. Naturally, there will be areas where there may be some disagreements on some smaller niche terms in the future, but it looks like a strong organisation for now.

Thanks everyone! That helped me, too - I often think about things and organise them subconciously, and sometimes don't even know why I think about things the way I do until I try to explain it to someone else. This list is better than my original. :)

AAAANND speaking of nitpicking about niches..... ;)

why take the PPC out of SEM

I was thinking of PPC as including banner and text ads and so forth, not necessarily just the search engine only versions. I'm wondering though - while technically a link ad on a website can be PPC, perhaps it would be clearer if we only used PPC for SE advertising and kept text/banner ads as a separate function...

Ian

[bethabernathy]

Just seems that email advertising has to be outside of SEM. Looks like Anthony, you have it down!!! :) I run some planned email campaigns for clients, only opt-in, and it is all PR stuff i.e. informative newsletters. My friend who runs a PR firm says that PR gets you a higher Return on Investment than Ads. Which makes sense to me i.e. provide your customers with information rather than ads/sales can create more communication that in turn can result in profits. Short story ... I think Email Advertising is outside of SEM (as long as it is not all sales to an opt-in list), but I am certainly Not Sure???? :)

[fathom]

I see SEO & SEM as exactly the same thing... and if not then what are:

eMarketing
Web Marketing
Online Marketing
Website Promotion
Internet Marketing
Search Engine Ranking
Search Engine Placement
Search Engine Positioning

...and all the other ways of saying "the same thing".

[Mikkel deMib Svendsen]

It looks like one important item is missing on the list: Viral marketing - not only is it a strong stand alone marketing method but indeed also very helpfull in SEO building link popularity.

Also, I am not sure PPC is a good term to use - it's got nothing to do with the ad format - only the pricing model. Alternatively we should add CPA marketing as well as it is, in my mind, the next realy big move. (First we paid for impressions, next came clicks and now it's time for conversions)

[bethabernathy]

now it's time for conversions

Nice one!! Very important!! I sent out an email ad to just under 7000 opt in subscribers for a tent company I work with. Now this one was about a price increase that they were going to initiate 9/15/04. They were offering current prices until that date and notifying their interested customers. I am tracking the click throughs and reads and they are going to provide me with the sales statistics after 9/15. It will be interesting to see.

I have alot of clients that say, we are gettiing more calls, etc., but it is very difficult to track the ROI. I think that model is Key for sales. :)