Not listed on Google after 6 months.

[rorymilne]

I know this reads like a typical newby post but I've been trying to get a site of mine listed since January and it's really starting to get to me. See url below.

http://www.accessaberdeen.co.uk

Yahoo likes it, MSN likes it, Google won't touch it with a barge pole! Just to clarify I'm not having problems getting a good listing for the site - that I could live with. Nope, my problem is actually getting the site onto the Google database. It's just not there. Not on any Google datacentre. Sure googlebot shows up in the visitor stats from time to time but that's it. Any help or advise on this would be greatly appreciated, even if it's to say that you have a site stuck in the same position. Thanks in advance guys.

[glengara]

You've insufficient links to merit/warrant indexing, IMO...

[Marcia]

Submit to Yahoo directory & ODP and some good UK directories as well.

[rorymilne]

Thanks for the quick replies but if you check out a few of other sites I submitted not long before the problem site you'll see they have either few or no links as far as Google is concerned and they aren't listed on the ODP or Yahoo directory. However they were accepted into the Google database, see below for urls.

http://www.deesidephoto.co.uk
http://www.juliesangster.co.uk
http://www.grampiansquirrelgroup.co.uk

As you can probably guess I've been trying to get the problem site listed on ODP since January too and as you can probably also guess it hasn't got a listing yet. But that's the ODP for you. It's the Google situation that gets me. Again, thanks a lot for the replies.

[glengara]

*..if you check out a few of other sites I submitted..*

I've found that submitted sites can initially get indexed but unless they get some incoming links fairly quickly, can subsequently fall out..

[rorymilne]

Thanks once more for taking the time to reply. However the links I mentioned earlier have been in the Google database for around 7 to 8 months so they really couldn't be seen as falling under the "initially indexed" but "subsequently fallen out" due to a lack of "incoming links" not appearing "fairly quickly" category. I mean I take your point that Google does temporarily add sites with little or no content or SE optimisation before dropping them pretty quickly - lets say after a few days or weeks but the sites I listed have been there a lot longer. Ok, to be totally fair to the "initially indexed" theory here are a couple of my other sites which have been on the Google database for a year or longer. Again, no links as far as Google is concerned, not on ODP, not on Yahoo directory.

http://www.deesidedriveways.co.uk
http://www.coldstreamdiggers.com

Seriously, I don't think this is a links issue but thanks for the replies and thanks as well for the time taken to post them.

[glengara]

*I don't think this is a links issue*

Fair enough, come back and tell us what the issue was...

[Mike UK]

From the look of your aberdeen site, you are a council/gov agency.

Why not use this to your advantage and get a high PR (Page Rank ) Council or Gov. site to throw you a one way link. Go for a PR6 PR7 and see what happens. This should get you listed quite quickly.

Getting lots of PR1 and PR2 links from directories probably won't do much other than fraustrate you. ( did i mention that I can't spell or type )

Or.. And I don't know how relaible this is though, I had a problem site and did this and it turned up in Google after 3 days. It might have just been a coincidence. I did it in January of this year 2006.

I heard that you could apply for an adsense account using this sites web address and as part of the proceedure Google check over the site and index it.

There will probbaly be an avalanche of people saying that this doesn't happen, but I tried it and was listed 3 days later. ( The site is found by searching crarer in google. It will come up 1st 2nd or 3rd depending what mood google is in. It has ZERO Page Rank and very little competition)

....and.... I will probably get shot, drawn and quarted for saying this, but the same word in different colours on various coloured backgrounds might actually look like hidden text. ( Your page color changer items at the bottom of the page ) You might actually be being excluded because you look like you are trying to do something odd with the word text. If it was my site I would remove this page colour changer tool.

I hope the above is of use...

[palconit]

Try out this Google Banned Tool to see if your site is banned from Google.

http://www.123promotion.co.uk/tools/googlebanned.php

Thanks.

[rorymilne]

*Fair enough, come back and tell us what the issue was...*

Or I could stick around and read the very helpful suggestions that have been posted recently. Thanks a lot guys, I've put together some of the advice and this is what I've come up with:

1) The google banned tool says the site is probably banned.
2) Although the site doesn't break any of Google's published rules it does have a facility to allow partially sighted visitors to change the text colour and background colour so that they can read the text more easily. After all the whole purpose of the site is to promote accessibility so obviously it should be just as accessible to partially sighted visitors as anybody else. However this facility could technically have got the site banned.

Looks like I'll have to email Google and ask to be unbanned on the grounds that the site has a justifiable reason for breaking one of their rules. Thanks again for everyone's help and advice.

[Mike UK]

Don't rule out the links though RoryMilne

They are without a doubt important for how your site is percieved by Google both in terms of importance and relevancy and it may be why your site is not indexed.

If you can, using council / gov't connections get a relevant Gov't or Concil High Page Rank page (6 or 7 ) to link to you using something relevant in the link text that would help your cause. Even if the link is just for a couple of weeks. You could do this while you are waiting for an answer from Google.

The best way to contact google for inclusion queries would be :

http://www.google.com/support/bin/request.py

Be polite as they don't have to include you. :)

[glengara]

*The google banned tool says the site is probably banned.*

I wouldn't bother much with that, a non-indexed site gives much the same profile as a banned site to these tools, Y! which shows a far more realistic link count has one link showing, and it's from your design site.

There's no mystery/penalty, that site just lacks links.....

[Marcia]

1) The google banned tool says the site is probably banned.Not worth much of anything, only a query showing whether sites are listed which is just as easy to do right at Google. Plus, there are subtle differences in what's in the query result between banned sites and those simply not indexed. "Tools" don't show that, and if they did they'd be in trouble for scraping Google.

[rorymilne]

glengara,

*There's no mystery/penalty, that site just lacks links.....*

So why have the other linkless sites I mentioned in previous posts not been dropped from the Google database in the months or years since they first got accepted? For that matter why were they accepted in the first place?

Marcia,

*there are subtle differences in what's in the query result between banned sites and those simply not indexed*

Could you let me know what these subtle differences are so that I can work out whether my site is banned or just not indexed?

[seangorman]

www.mattcutts.com - Google's chief of police and all round Google Guru has previously stated somewhere on his blog that the webmasters of BANNED SITES get emailed to tell them what is wrong with the site. (please notice the lack of quote marks..)

So I'd suggest that
A. Check your email box for an email from google.

If A provides you with no joy... then maybe you're not the webmaster.
(This next stage is open to interpretation and correction...) Do a whois on your site! That should tell you who the webmaster is for your site (no, I'm not being sarcastic, some of your sites are not yours, and the clients might have changed the whois data).

In any case... When you know who the webmaster is, and if that account does not have an email, then I'd suggest that the site isn't banned. Only a suggestion because maybe the email was sent, but not delivered, maybe google does not have the correct address etc etc etc.

I just took over the administration of a site that was banned, and you can tell because you can see the link:www.mysite.com results, but no site:www.mysite.com. After a re-in request and an email to Google's webmaster email addy, we are now rating quite high on our key phrases.

I do standby previous comments about linkages. The Action Aberdeen can easily get links from tourist Information, perhaps a free ad on Yell, Open directory for sure, other related Scottish / Aberdeen web-rings.
[/verbose]
S

[Mike UK]

you can tell because you can see the link:wvvw.mysite.com results, but no site:wvvw.mysite.com.


That's a good tip. :)

[seangorman]

:o
Sorry, it was an accident.. I'll try not to do it in the future
:D

[glengara]

*So why have the other linkless sites I mentioned in previous posts not been dropped from the Google database in the months or years since they first got accepted?*

You seem unable/unwilling to see the patently obvious, you've no bloody links, best of British to you...

[Marcia]

You seem unable/unwilling to see the patently obvious, you've no bloody links, best of British to you...Ditto. The site needs links.

Submission isn't really necessary and doesn't do much, sites get found through links. Get links. Submit to directories, send out link requests.

[rorymilne]

It's been made absolutely crystal clear through each and every single post in this thread what each and every poster's opinion is on linkage. Could we now please call a moratorium on the subject and move on before the thread degrades to the level of "I'm right. You're wrong." A couple of posts have touched on the subject of how to actually tell if a site is banned which seems to me to be a far more useful and worthwhile discussion.

*there are subtle differences in what's in the query result between banned sites and those simply not indexed*

Marcia,

Could you let me know what these subtle differences are so that I can work out whether my site is banned or just not indexed?

*I just took over the administration of a site that was banned, and you can tell because you can see the link:www.mysite.com results, but no site:www.mysite.com.*

seangorman,

My site shows no results for site:www.mysite.com exactly the same as your banned site but unlike your banned site shows no results for link:www.mysite.com, are you sure no results whether for site:www.mysite.com or link:www.mysite.com specifically suggests banned status? Wouldn't an unindexed site produce the same search response? If not then what differences are there between the responses?

Answers to these specific questions would be much appreciated as well as any other comments, advice or suggestions that move the discussion on.

[Marcia]

A site that's not in the index at all will return this:

Your search - site:example.com - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
Try different keywords.
Try more general keywords.Nothing linked, no sign that such a site ever existed.

[seangorman]

Rorymilne lets take it as read that search engines love links whether they be in out or shake it all about. ;)

Neither site: nor link: does anything other than tell you what they tell you. You can not infer anything from them.
If s: > 0 but l: = 0 then you have no links
If s: = 0 but l: > 0 then you are banned
If S: and l: = 0 then, you are not indexed or linked.

They also love unique content. Perhaps they don't like the content.

Check with Google.. They don't reply, but you might get an effect of some sort; of course, don't mention your other sites. :)

ps: 'search-quality@google.com'

[Mike UK]

On of my home pages is gone from the listings at the moment due to a duplicate contenet issue and my ignorance but a link to it is still shown in Google. ( At the moment )

An unindexed site ( that has never had and links ) would show the response of no site and no links.

The only way you could use this check ( If it always works ) is to see if your site "that had links in the first place" has gone from the index. If you never had any links, this can't help you.

Did you have links showing at anypoint to accessaberdeen ?

( WARNING : I'm not a Guru :cool: )

If it was my site and I was in your Job I would do this :

Get a link from a council, government of tourist board or something like that with a good page rank. Like page Rank 6 or 7.

Make sure the site is relevant and that the hypertext / anchor text says something relevant not just your site name.

In your position you should be able to get this free as a favour to help to a council buddy kind of thing.

This link will ( should ) get you indexed if you are not already probably within a week or so.

If you are banned you will see no change and will still not be indexed

You could also Try the registering for Adsense thing I mentioned about 10 posts ago. As I said then it worked for my in January this year

( END OF WARNING :cool: )

You don't seem to like the answers that people are offering but I think really they are all trying to help you. I'm not sure that there is any quick way to see if you are banned or not. I don't think Google will tell you.

I think the issue with asking in a forum is that the answer you get is from so many sources and from so many people with different experiences that it is hard to see who is right or wrong or in fact is there a right or wrong.

[rorymilne]

Where do I start...

Marcia,

"A site that's not in the index at all will return this:

Quote:
Your search - site:example.com - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
Try different keywords.
Try more general keywords.

Nothing linked, no sign that such a site ever existed."

Ok, much what I thought but what would a site that's banned return?

seangorman,

"Rorymilne lets take it as read that search engines love links whether they be in out or shake it all about."

Agreed. 100%. But Google has always accepted the sites I've submitted to them in the past (and those submitted since my problem site) and those have had either few or no links.

"They also love unique content. Perhaps they don't like the content."

Very good point. Maybe my site hasn't been accepted by Google because they don't like the content. In which case my efforts should be focused on changing the content not getting links.

"Check with Google.. They don't reply, but you might get an effect of some sort"

I'm going to check with Google as soon as I've posted this.

Mike UK,

"see if your site that had links in the first place has gone from the index. If you never had any links, this can't help you.

Did you have links showing at anypoint to accessaberdeen ?"

No. Google has never shown any links.

"Get a link from a council, government of tourist board or something like that with a good page rank. Like page Rank 6 or 7."

"In your position you should be able to get this free as a favour to help to a council buddy kind of thing.

This link will ( should ) get you indexed if you are not already probably within a week or so."

I've been asking for links on the council website since before the site was finished. Naturally I'll keep asking but the council moves at it's own speed as is the case with any local government body that I've experience of. I should point out that I don't work for the council, I'm just a web designer that got paid to design one of their websites so I don't have any special access to the council's IT department. The tourist board wouldn't really be the best place to get linked to as my site is related to education in Aberdeen City rather than tourism.

"If you are banned you will see no change and will still not be indexed"

Another very good point. That's why I'd like to work out if I'm banned. Some posts in this thread suggest that there's a way to work that out, if so I'd love to know how.

"You don't seem to like the answers that people are offering but I think really they are all trying to help you."

I've thanked people for both their time and their answers on several occasions in several posts throughout this thread. I wouldn't do that if I didn't like any of the answers that people are offering or didn't realise they were trying to help me. That doesn't mean that I appreciate being told I'm "unable/unwilling to see the patently obvious". Does anyone honestly think that falls under the category of "trying to help"? I know I don't find it very helpful. I'm trying to look at all possible reasons for my site not being on Google rather than just focusing on one particular potential cause. As has been suggested a ban or issues of content are just as likely to blame. In order words there is no "patently obvious" solution just several possible solutions and it's not very open minded to suggest otherwise.

Once more thanks for the time everyone has taken to post on this thread, if Marcia could possibly post an answer to the question above that would be very helpful and if anyone else has further information on Google bans or opinions on the content of my problem site (either pro or con) that would be of great help too.

[Mike UK]

Where do I start...
"If you are banned you will see no change and will still not be indexed"

Another very good point. That's why I'd like to work out if I'm banned.
Some posts in this thread suggest that there's a way to work that out, if so I'd love to know how.


Hi RoryMilne.

One way to find out if you are banned :

Apply for an Adsense account and use this page as the website to apply will take you all of 5 minutes.

2-3 Days later you will get an e-mail from google saying that they have checked your site over and they approve or dissaprove.

If they approve then you are not banned. What's more is that if they check over your site they will ( probably ) also index it like they did with me in January.

[rorymilne]

"Another way would be to apply for an Adsense account and use this page as the website. 2-3 Days later you will get an e-mial from google saying that they have checked your site over and they approve or dissaprove.

If they approve then you are not banned."

That might just work but I'll wait first to see if Marcia replies to my earlier question.

Just to recap Marcia said -

"A site that's not in the index at all will return this:

Quote:
Your search - site:example.com - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
Try different keywords.
Try more general keywords.

Nothing linked, no sign that such a site ever existed."

And I asked Marcia what would a site that's banned return. With any luck Marcia will post a reply when time allows.

[Marcia]

That's what's seen returned for sites I've seen that have been indexed that were removed, as well as for a site that's never been indexed and has no reference to it on any web page and no links.

That's what a site: search shows for your site now, but that doesn't tell whether the site has been removed or just has never been indexed at all. If the site was at one time indexed and that's what's now showing up, then that's how it looks.

The site is crawlable because Yahoo and MSN have it (Yahoo only 2 pages, MSN more) so that's not it, and "pages containing" comes up with this thread and your portfolio page as having the URL - so they do know about it.

[glengara]

SEO is not an exact science so experience counts, and while this:

Sorry, no information is available for the URL www.accessaberdeen.co.uk

*If the URL is valid, try visiting that web page by clicking on the following link: www.accessaberdeen.co.uk
*Find web pages from the site www.accessaberdeen.co.uk
*Find web pages that contain the term "www.accessaberdeen.co.uk"

may mirror the results for a banned site, a banned site would invariably show a lot more results for "contain the term".

That your site shows only two indicates to any experienced SEO that the site is not banned, it's simply not indexed due to lack of links.

End of....

[Marcia]

glengara, I might be hitting a different data center, but I'm getting the other message with a site: search with no links, nothing but what I posted above.

End of....It is the end of the story - links.

[rorymilne]

Just back from my 2 days off (It's not possible for me to take weekends off, I just take whatever days I can) so I'm just catching up on the last few messages posted. Firstly thanks once more for Marcia and glengara for taking the time to post but I'm still left with a couple of questions.

Marcia,

I'm confused by two of your comments and would appreciate a little clarification. The two comments are:

"there are subtle differences in what's in the query result between banned sites and those simply not indexed."

and

"That's what's seen returned for sites I've seen that have been indexed that were removed, as well as for a site that's never been indexed and has no reference to it on any web page and no links."

So basically I'm not sure what the subtle differences are between the query results for a site that has been indexed then removed and a site that's never been indexed?

glengara,

I'd be very interested to know why "a banned site would invariably show a lot more results for 'contain the term'."? If a site is banned for text colour / background colour reasons and has no links (as far as a link:www.mysite.com search is concerned) then would there be any 'contain the term' results for that site?

Please both get back to me on these questions when you get the chance and if you guys get weekends off then have a good one.

[Robert_Charlton]

rorymilne - This feels like a thread where unanimous, clear, and simple advice is being ignored....

First of all, the site does seem to be in the Google index, at least on http://66.102.7.104/ which is the Google data center currently being returned to me in northern California.

I tried an all-the-words search for six words in the home page title (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=accessibility+strategy+for+aberdeen+city+council&btnG=Google+Search), where 181,000 pages satisfy the query, and accessaberdeen is coming up #1 and #2.

...and also an exact search for "All councils in Scotland must have an accessibility" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22All+councils+in+Scotland+must+have+an+accessi bility%22&btnG=Google+Search)... the first eight words on the page... where three pages satisfy the query.

The other two "pages" satisfying the latter query are pdfs on aberdeencity.gov.uk, I assume the official site for the strategy being discussed, which contain content that dupes accessaberdeen's home page. In this case, though, there doesn't seem to be any dupe problem.

If the page had a Google dupe problem, it would only show up in supplemental results for either of these searches.

And... for heavens sakes, the home page even ranks #8 for [balanced education aberdeen], 374K results, unlikely to be searched, but one of the things it looked like the page might rank for.

So, excuse me for jumping in and saying this, but....

a) The site needs some inbound links, pure and simple.

b) There's no Google problem that I can see. Don't bother Google; don't email them; don't put them to extra trouble. Put yourself to some extra trouble and get some links.

c) Google has some age considerations in its algo, including the age of inbound links, so I wouldn't be wasting time resisting the necessity of getting them. A new domain, with some inbounds, is likely to take nine months or longer to rank on anything competitive.

d) The meta keywords list on the home page suggests some unrealistic expectations.

[rorymilne]

Hi Robert_Charlton,

Thanks for adding to the discussion but I think your late arrival has led to a perfectly reasonable misunderstanding. When you say -

"the site does seem to be in the Google index, at least on http://66.102.7.104/ which is the Google data center currently being returned to me in northern California.

I tried an all-the-words search for six words in the home page title, where 181,000 pages satisfy the query, and accessaberdeen is coming up #1 and #2."

you're absolutely right. The site appeared on Google just before your post. All the posts before yours discuss the situation before Google accepted the site and should be seen in that light.

"rorymilne - This feels like a thread where unanimous, clear, and simple advice is being ignored...."

Ok, a read through of this thread from the start should give you more of an idea of the advice given by all the various contributors. Suggestions have included: Google doesn't like my sites content, my site might be banned and my site lacks enough links to get listed (sorry to anybody whose suggestion I've missed out). Anyhow, the point is that different individuals have given me different opinions and I've tried to take them all into consideration. Opinions certainly haven't been unanimous. As for simple and clear, well as you can see from my last post I've asked for clarification from two of the people that have taken the time to post several times because the topic is complicated and open to interpretation. glengara summed up this thread perfectly when he said:

"SEO is not an exact science"

Now, back to what you were saying:

"excuse me for jumping in and saying this, but...."

No need to excuse yourself, remember I asked for advice and appreciate the time and effort taken to give it.

"a) The site needs some inbound links, pure and simple."

I'm working on it. Earlier in this thread I mentioned how I've been trying to get links to aberdeencity.gov.uk as well as trying to get an ODP listing since before the site was finished in January. Both tasks are proving to be slow going but it's not like I haven't bothered to get links or somehow don't realise their importance as far as ranking goes.

"b) There's no Google problem that I can see. Don't bother Google; don't email them; don't put them to extra trouble."

Obviously now that my site has been listed on Google I won't be contacting them. It was suggested I email them earlier in this thread to find out if my site was banned but now that this is known not to be the case I clearly won't be doing that.

"c) Google has some age considerations in its algo, including the age of inbound links, so I wouldn't be wasting time resisting the necessity of getting them. A new domain, with some inbounds, is likely to take nine months or longer to rank on anything competitive."

As above, I haven't been resisting getting links - it's just taking time to get them. I can see how a fresh pair of eyes reading the tail end of this thread might actually think it was a discussion on the value of inbound links but it's actually been a discussion of the reasons for my site not being accepted into the Google index, i.e. content, links or a ban. As I've said different people have given me their different opinions as to the possible reasons and I've considered and discussed all opinions as and when they've been posted.

"d) The meta keywords list on the home page suggests some unrealistic expectations."

I'll definitely take that into consideration. You're the first contributor to mention meta tags but now that you've mentioned them I'll have a look with a view to what you've said.

All in all thanks for taking the time to post. Anybody else's thoughts would be equally appreciated as would responses from Marcia and glengara to the Google ban related questions I asked them in my earlier message.

[jackson992]

Try out this Google Banned Tool to see if your site is banned from Google.

http://www.123promotion.co.uk/tools/googlebanned.php

Thanks.

I used this tool and found a site of mine that was banned. What do I do to find out why?

The site is http://automotiveparts-accessories.com and it just vanished from Google about 2-3 weeks ago. The strange thing is that I still see Google PR on the toolbar tho I know that doesn't mean a lot these days.

[Marcia]

I used this tool and found a site of mine that was banned. What do I do to find out why?

The site is http://automotiveparts-accessories.com and it just vanished from Google about 2-3 weeks ago. The strange thing is that I still see Google PR on the toolbar tho I know that doesn't mean a lot these days.The toolbar PR is accurate for the snapshot in time for when the TB was last updated, but what's seen now on the TB isn't current. They update PR internally all the time, but only update the visible TBPR 3/4 times a year.

Does the site that just disappeared link to the site that got banned by Google?

[jackson992]

Hi Marcia:

This is the only site I own that has been banned by Google. I did try going to google sitemaps and putting in a reinclusion rrequest. When I filled it out I did say that I had no idea what guidelines I could be breaking so we'll see what they say.