Do affiliate program links count as inbound links?

[dasheriprock]

I run a niche business selling hardgoods and have been toying with the idea of starting an affiliate program. Originally, I just wanted to give people running a resource/community site a way to monetize and help both of us out in the process. Now, I ran across this site and it appears that all affiliate links would count as inbound links to my site.

Here is what it says on the FAQ section of hte interneka site:

Q:Can affiliates links point to our domain name instead of pointing to Interneka?
A. Yes, our advanced Private Linking feature will make your affiliate links point to your site.


If this is the case, it would seem that it would make sense to start an affiliate program even for the link benefits. I would imagine that I'd get more inbound links since I'm offering a commission.

Too good to be true or am I reading this wrong?

Thanks,

[phaithful]

I'm not exactly sure what Interneka's "advanced Private Link" feature entails... but typically the links that you gain through affiliates don't pass link value.

Usually this is due to technology constraints and tracking. Affiliates must be able to pass unique identifiers to your site so you know who to pay the commission to. Typically this results in having a unique URL with a id parameter ?uid=unique-alphanumeric-id or sometimes it's passed through a redirect page or sometimes both.

I can think of a few ways to pass link value and track conversion, but it would require a large amount of technical coordination and setup than most publishers are willing to go through.

If you want to get a good adoption rate for your affiliate program, you'll have to make it super simple for someone to implement, otherwise only a few tech savvy web publishers will actually end up using it. Which ultimately may not be worth the time and effort to setup.

Bang for the buck as just a link building exercise, affiliate programs is not the way to go. But from a revenue stand point, it can be very good if done right. Also you'll get branding and impression exposure at the very least even if you can't get link juice.

[bobmutch]

phaithful:

Sounds from your last post on link passing ranking in affilate links you know your affilate stuff. I am looking for some consulting on marking 11 of my projects from 6 sites and setting up an affilate system, banners pages, sign ups, selecting the right 3rd party affilate system.

Let me know if you are interested.

[Marcia]

have been toying with the idea of starting an affiliate programAnd bobmutch said:

Sounds from your last post on link passing ranking in affilate links you know your affilate stuff. I am looking for some consulting on marking 11 of my projects from 6 sites and setting up an affilate system, banners pages, sign ups, selecting the right 3rd party affilate system.No it doesn't, Bob. People with savvy on how to run affiliate programs know that for the program to succeed as an affiliate program they need to attract savvy, high-producing affiliate marketers - and not only are banners the least effective but those with AM savvy will not give away links for free that pass on link love.

AM only pays for performance - aka conversion to sales, and people in the know won't give away branding and SEO benefits to merchants without getting paid, which is exactly what trying to use affiliate links for link pop is trying to do.

That's if someone really, legitimately wants to set up an affiliate program that will be ethically and successfully run for all concerned. For those not really caring about the affiliate part of it, but who are just looking for a way to get branding and free SEO benefits for themselves, it's a totally different perspective.

It takes a good amount of experience to know how to run a good affiliate program, it's not something newbies can take lightly. There are outsourced AM's (and consultants) out there with astounding track records, and they continue successfully because they get a reputation and kown how to maintain relationships with top-notch affiliates who produce for their client companies and make good money doing it. That's a win-win situation

[FDJA]

FYI: Mals-e.com (http://mals-e.com) has a shopping cart that works with PayPal Website Payments Pro and it's got a super easy to use affiliate program built in.

[bobmutch]

Marcia:

>>>No it doesn't, Bob.

No what doesn't? What is the "it" here : )


>>>they need to attract savvy, high-producing affiliate marketers -

I would be happy with 200 or 300 relevant blogs that post my products on there site. I am not looking to go real high tech here : )

>>>and not only are banners the least effective but those with AM savvy will not give away links for free that pass on link love.

Well I have an affiliate banner on my site that made me $80 this month. I think it make 4 or 5 sales. Now if I can find 200 or 300 sites that will make 4 or 5 sales a month for me I would be happy (average sales is around $500).

>>>...people in the know won't give away branding and SEO benefits to merchants without getting paid, which is exactly what trying to use affiliate links for link pop is trying to do.

Well that is not what I am interested in doing. My link pop is doing fine. I am not looking to use affiliates to build that up. Although I have to admit if it could be done that wouldn't hurt.

I have a limited number of SEO products and I want to get advertised on relevant websites so I can increase sales.

>>>That's if someone really, legitimately wants to set up an affiliate program that will be ethically and successfully run for all concerned.

Thats me!

>>>It takes a good amount of experience to know how to run a good affiliate program, it's not something newbies can take lightly.

Well I am not looking to do up an affiliate program that grosses 20 million a year. I own a small firm that gross 200k or so a year. Nothing to serious. I would like to slowly increase that.

So If I can get my products on relevant sites via banners and get more sales that way I will be happy. I can see the option of offering a page to those that will to offer my services on there site would work well to. That came to my mind when you noted that banners were one of the least effective.

So I would be interested in your opinion on what you consider the more effective ways to present products on sites if banners are the least effective.

/me goes and adjusts his affiliate spec to include downloadable page content.

[Marcia]

>>>No it doesn't, Bob.

No what doesn't? What is the "it" here : )Bob, "it" is referring to your comment about a post indicating knowing stuff about how affiliate programs work. And I know you don't need affiliate links for link pop, but there are some folks who are looking for just that and with some of them it's been a one-sided thing about what "they" can get out of it, but the way to attract and get the best affiliates is two-sided, where it's a partnership between the parties for mutual benefit.

As a matter of fact, there was a certain network (which I won't name) that used "link pop" as their selling point for merchants or service providers. They had a forum at the top affiliate site around, and the savvy marketers got on their case so hard that the forum had to be shut down because their spin was exposed.

What we have here in this thread are two different types of affiliate programs under consideration. One is for services, which isn't the same thing as the other, which is for merchandise. Aside from the right attitude, the most important thing is tracking and payment. People want assurance that they'll get paid for their efforts on behalf of a merchant.

For merchandise, the simplest way to assure things are tracked and run properly, with many of the essential details taken care of (like international payments and direct deposit, to name just two) a network is probably a good move.

CJ is seriously under fire at this time (for good reason - no, excellent reasons), Linkshare has their shortcomings and is avoided by many (for good reason), plus they're both very, very expensive to set up and maintain month by month. Not so Shareasale, which is about the must trusted around, with a reputation for high ethics and practices - and very affordable. They also have program management available and some of the top people around on board. There are other small networks, but that's an individual thing depending on which it is.

For services, I'm not so sure it would be worth signing up with a network (even a really good one that's economical), the provider would have to examine the costs and benefits and decide based on whether it would mean enough ROI to make the investment and utilize the solution.

[FDJA]

... For services, I'm not so sure it would be worth signing up with a network (even a really good one that's economical), the provider would have to examine the costs and benefits and decide based on whether it would mean enough ROI to make the investment and utilize the solution.

This reply from Marcia was covering a lot more, I snipped one of the items, for a closer look...

Basically me personal experience with affiliate programs has taught me three important things, which again, don't take this as the rule, but rather my recommendation based on my personal use of them:

1) I have no faith in 3rd party affiliate "systems", as a reseller or merchant. I have been a reseller for some companies who use Comission Junction and a couple other big ones. Although the items I was reselling were perfectly matched and added value for my site visitors and/or members, I only actually received credit one time for a sale. When I would check traffic is was non-existent, yet I know these got clicks and sales. A few sales came directly from me on my IP and at other IPs... Other times site members who know me would contact me to make sure I got my share, but for some reason, their cookies are either very weak, or they purposely bury results. I spoke directly with "affiliate directors" at two prominent companies who I moved product for and which I had confirmed sales, but they said that when they checked their CJ account, it either showed nothing, or would show clicks but not sales. Either way 3rd party affiliate providers don't have my trust for sure.

2) Companies which have their own affiliate programs have always sent me comissions and have always been able to tell me traffic history, sales history, commissions earned etc. I recently started my own affiliate program, (something I've wanted to do for years) and I used Mals-E.com to set it up. It's called MTracker and it works super easy. The cookies are stong too. When setting it up, I even setup links with just a top level domain, (when products are deep in the site) and it still registered clicks and sales. From my admin end, I can approve or decline affiliates, allocate their sales and process month end payments with just a few clicks. So far, so good.

3) When considering becoming a reseller, ALWAYS wait before making a decision on joining. Consider how the program works, get to know the affiliate manager and think about how whatever you're trying to sell will be perceived and presented to your website visitors or members. What will your spin be? I have found the most success with things that are not spur of the moment items or ideas. In other words, think long term and look at the core offerings you have either in web content or things your members and visitors have already or may need. I've wasted so much time setting up various programs and promoting them without earning a dime, but then with a few other very basic programs, I've managed to earn nice little commissions with little or no effort.

[Marcia]

FDJA, to a degree, it can depend on the individual merchant which is why indies or network, affiliates do TEST PURCHASES to make sure orders from a given merchant are being properly tracked and paid for. Merchants can cheat, whether they're indie or network. They can also reverse sales - dishonestly. Hosting affiliate programs are notorious for bad practices. Therefore, savvy affiliates either test with purchases for themselves, or base trust on the experience of others who share their testing results, both positive and negative.

Plus, consider the fact that the *major" networks are loaded with parasites, and affiliate cookies can be and are over-written regularly. That is one of the major reasons aware affiliates go with a trusted network that's parasite free and monitors merchants for unethical practices.

Were your merchants hosting programs, by any chance? And did you check to see whether your merchants were listed with any of the parasitic programs?

[bobmutch]

Marcia:

>>>Aside from the right attitude, the most important thing is tracking and payment. People want assurance that they'll get paid for their efforts on behalf of a merchant.

I would agree with that. Far as I am concerned using an 3rd party affiliate service that is going to give your marketing partners security that they are going to get paid is very important.

>>>As a matter of fact, there was a certain network (which I won't name) that used "link pop" as their selling point for merchants or service providers. They had a forum at the top affiliate site around, and the savvy marketers got on their case so hard that the forum had to be shut down because their spin was exposed.

I just though if it is was possible to transfer PR vote and Ranking juice from the banners and text link ads your marketing partners place that would be nice.

So from what you are telling me that shouldn't be part of the equation and I can see why. If you sign up with a affiliate that is geared toward getting you PR vote and ranking juice from your marketing partners ad placements this you are going to taint your marketing drive.

That kind of affilate system will attract all kinds of spammers and prospective marketing partners in the know and will not want to touch you.

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

>>>What we have here in this thread are two different types of affiliate programs under consideration. One is for services, which isn't the same thing as the other, which is for merchandise.

In your opinion what the the most important differents being affilate programs for merchandise and servies?

>>>CJ is seriously under fire at this time (for good reason - no, excellent reasons), Linkshare has their shortcomings and is avoided by many (for good reason), plus they're both very, very expensive to set up and maintain month by month.

Both CJ and Linkshare are way over my head. I am just a small company doing around 250k sales a year that wants to answer the requests of consultants that like my service products and would like to promote them on their web sites.

>>>Not so Shareasale, which is about the must trusted around, with a reputation for high ethics and practices - and very affordable. They also have program management available and some of the top people around on board. There are other small networks, but that's an individual thing depending on which it is.

Shareasale looks good. The directory of there Afiliates is very nice feature - shareasale.com/out-programs.cfm (http://shareasale.com/out-programs.cfm). Seems the price is ok. $350 for sign up and minimum of $25 a month after the grace period.

Thanks for another good tip. Hey perhaps we should be doing this under a consultant fee : )

>>>There are other small networks, but that's an individual thing depending on which it is.

I have looked at a few affiliate systems. I am a marketing partner for www.uncoverthenet.com (http://www.uncoverthenet.com/) and they use www.myreferer.com (http://www.myreferer.com/) which is $80 to $100 per month. It appeared to me to have everything I need. Now I am seeing that I need to look a bit further.

>>>For services, I'm not so sure it would be worth signing up with a network (even a really good one that's economical), the provider would have to examine the costs and benefits and decide based on whether it would mean enough ROI to make the investment and utilize the solution.

If you are doing 30 to $40k in services a month I am sure there would be ROI if it was marketed right. I don't understand why you would view them as differnet.

Anyway Marcia thanks for the tip not to follow after PR vote and Link Pop when considering an affiliate system. Also for pointing out Shareasale. Have you done any articles on this or could you point me to more resources that would provide the same quality of tips you have given me thus far?

[bobmutch]

FDJA:

>>>1) I have no faith in 3rd party affiliate "systems", as a reseller or merchant. I have been a reseller for some companies who use Comission Junction and a couple other big ones. Although the items I was reselling were perfectly matched and added value for my site visitors and/or members, I only actually received credit one time for a sale.

Why would a 3rd party affiliate system purpose to cheap a affiliate. That makes no sense to me. Some 3rd party affiliate systems like www.shareasale.com (http://www.shareasale.com) base the fees they charge the merchant on the dollar value of the commissions going to the affiliate.

As an affiliate I would normally give more trust to a 3rd party affilliate system then to one that is controled by the merchant themselves.

[FDJA]

FDJA, to a degree, it can depend on the individual merchant which is why indies or network, affiliates do TEST PURCHASES to make sure orders from a given merchant are being properly tracked and paid for. Merchants can cheat, whether they're indie or network. They can also reverse sales - dishonestly. Hosting affiliate programs are notorious for bad practices. Therefore, savvy affiliates either test with purchases for themselves, or base trust on the experience of others who share their testing results, both positive and negative.

Plus, consider the fact that the *major" networks are loaded with parasites, and affiliate cookies can be and are over-written regularly. That is one of the major reasons aware affiliates go with a trusted network that's parasite free and monitors merchants for unethical practices.

Were your merchants hosting programs, by any chance? And did you check to see whether your merchants were listed with any of the parasitic programs?

Hmmm.... The merchants for programs where I got "0" commissions and erroneous tracking even though I had confirmed and tested sales and clicks, were Ford Motor Company, Parts Express, Pro Sound Stage & Lighting and Amex (these were offered in various ways on various sites obviously). These were all handled through CJ and LS.

The merchants who I actually receive commissions and sales include Partystore, GoEmerchant, PayPal, Homestead, NorthernLightFX, Google. The only one of those on CJ is homestead.

You could be right about merchant swindling and cookies being overwritten. I never really gave it much thought and chalked it up to "one of those bits of technolgy that seems like it would be cool if it really worked".

I'm really sarcastic about software and technology... I've been let down so many times it's not funny. Most recently Dreamweaver... I always wanted to try it and I just happened to have a client that needs a huge job done and it's all going on remote servers, so I figured it would be a good opportunity. To me DW is $300 worth of nothing... There's no instructions, or guidance. The layout is totally confusing and cluttered. The help files are pathetic and the website is no better. Ditto for Intuit. QuickBooks? Pssshhh... You need to have an accounting degree and be an IT engineer to make it work. Call me dumb, but is their anything wrong with nice simple pieces of software that are feature packed, rock solid stable, easy to use and have excellent instructions? Oh - well, now I'm ranting... The whole software thing is off topic I know, but gives a general example of how awful technology can be when it's underdeveloped or unfinished and released anyway. (i.e.: G's Big Daddy, or MSNs search when they launched it while ago...) -

[Mikkel deMib Svendsen]

As an affiliate I would normally give more trust to a 3rd party affilliate system then to one that is controled to by the merchant themselves.
Absolutely! I just had a merchant on a direct deal that owed me approx $150k in commisions that I could not get. It took months and a lot of "threats" untill I finally got it. It was a nightmare.

[bobmutch]

Marcia:

Looks like www.abestweb.com (http://www.abestweb.com/) has a wealth of information on affiliate systems. There is a forum on www.shareasale.com (http://www.shareasale.com) there. Not sure it is is run by SAS or not.

[bobmutch]

Marcia:

>>>As a matter of fact, there was a certain network (which I won't name) that used "link pop" as their selling point for merchants or service providers. They had a forum at the top affiliate site around, and the savvy marketers got on their case so hard that the forum had to be shut down because their spin was exposed.

Was that FusionQuest and thier UltraLinks?

"FusionQuest is a marketing powerhouse that will enable you to harness the incredible power of referral marketing through cutting edge affiliate software, while at the same time boosting your search engine ranking by enabling links from your affiliates to count toward YOUR link popularity."
http://www.ultra-affiliate-software.com/