MikeLevin

[MikeLevin]

I'm getting ready to soft-launch a tool that helps you pick exactly the right long tail keywords for natural search optimization. I won't link-drop, because I don't want to be taken for a spammer, but we are looking for beta testers, and it is coming from the company that launched Amazon.com, Priceline and Vonage. So we're quite serious, and giving it away to the beta testers. For those interested, it's not difficult to figure out who I am or what the site is. I'd be happy to discuss it here if anyone is interested.

(Yes, the interest was expressed... MyLongTail (http://www.mylongtail.com/))

[AnthonyCea]

Please PM me the link, I will look at it for sure!

I'm sure the members here would not mind a link at all in this thread, if you would rather have people PM you let us know one way or another!

[MikeLevin]

OK, thanks Anthony. I'll PM you, but if you think it's OK, I'd like to post the link. It's http://www.mylongtail.com/. A narrated demo is there to give an overview. It's more strange than most SEO tools in how it zeros in on one little factor--the one I believe makes all the difference and applies across all engines. It takes for granted that you know the basics of SEO, the stuff we hear over and over. Let me know what you think, either of the demo or actually using the tool.

[AnthonyCea]

I looked at it Mike, I am going to test it out!

How long do we have to use it before we must pay :confused:

[MikeLevin]

Anthony, it will remain free for low-volume sites. It's one of those things where so long as a site is getting off the ground, it frankly doesn't cost us much, and we will provide it free for the PR value it gets us. Once a site becomes high traffic (level yet to be determined), we will have premium services.

[AnthonyCea]

So how does it give you PR value?

Please explain here on the forum a lot more about the program, because many readers will not bother to go to your site believe it or not, they will want to read about it and discuss it here!

[MikeLevin]

That's fine, and what I figured. When I say we're making it free for the PR value it gets us, I really mean public relations. Free = good PR. It's interesting how acronym overlaps here! Because it will build PR in the Google sense too, merely by being a free services for SEO. When it's discovered, people will start linking to it in their blogs & such.

So, there's so much to say, I hardly know where to begin. What do you think your readers will be most interested in? How it's already in use? Why it's different? What caused us to make it?

I guess I should start by saying the idea isn't radically new. Many of us in SEO have been optimizing for off-the-beaten-track keywords for ages, knowing that if you do it enough, it adds up to significant quality traffic. It's easier than optimizing for the most competitive keywords.

The new twist on it that this site brings is that it can spot a search hit on your site where the searcher was very determined, and surfed maybe 5 or 10 pages into the results. MyLongTail recognizes that, and issues it as a suggested topic for new writing. It takes for granted that you're either using a blogging tool to publish, or follow SEO best practices. Continually pulling up hits that are already occurring but not to their potential is a great way to build that long tail of natural search.

Starting to make sense?

[AnthonyCea]

Yes, now explain how we use it, do we install this on our server or what?

[MikeLevin]

You put a snipet of code in your templates in a very similar fashion as with Google Analytics or WebTrends. The code is provided at registration.

Then, as soon as search hits occur, you will see them in the search hits tab. Depending on the activity on your site, it could take several days before the first writing suggestions are issued under the Suggestions tab. More active sites should recieve a few suggestions per day right out of the starting gate.

If you like the suggestions, click them to move them into your "To Do" list. That simply works as your checklist of things that you need to (and have) written about. The site doesn't actually do any writing for you.

We suggest using blogging software such as Movable Type, WordPress or Blogger, so you don't even have to think about the technical issues of SEO. But I suspect it's mostly SEO's here, so as long as you follow standard best practices, your new content will be set up to rise in the SERPs--merely by virtue of the fact that it was ALMOST working for you already!

It will take the standard cycle to see the results. With higher PR sites, that can be as short as 2 weeks these days. With lower PR sites, it's the gradual build that we're all familiar with... but the new content you've added is more likely to generate good hits once it is included.

How's that for starters? The idea is difficult enough that I'm trying to keep the actual process as simple as I can for now. If it takes off, I'll be adding more wicked features (mash-ups, and the like).

[AnthonyCea]

How does it give quirey results back, by amount, keyword, date, time :confused:

Can it be used on a forum like this one we are on now :confused:

[Robert_Charlton]

Sounds like we're sharing our search referral information with your company, something I think that many of us would be extremely reluctant to do.

Please clarify if I've got this wrong. If I've got it right, what is your privacy and usage policy regarding this information?

[MikeLevin]

Hi Robert! Yes, that is true. We're working on the terms & agreements. We wouldn't share data or else this has no chance of success... not to mention the ethical reasons! I'll put the official privacy statement together. But please don't let that stop anyone from becoming an early beta tester. This is Mike Levin from the early days of SEF, working for the company that launched Amazon.com and Priceline. I'm sure a bit of Googling will confirm that we've both got reputations that wouldn't be risked by behaving in any other way than completely respecting everyones' privacy.

[MikeLevin]

Anyone here who tried using it have any thoughts?

Oh and yes, it can be used on a forum like the one we are on now.

[AnthonyCea]

OK, so it can be used on a vB forum.

Does it give queries by keyword searched on, by date, by times the term was clicked on, by IP, by search engine?

Please explain :o

This data is not packaged and sold to other marketers as some keyword software application companies do, right ?

What about the footprint, is it going to slow down the forum?

Some say that GA slows the performance a bit and have complained about this!

What about cookies and so on?

Phil was complaining about the system used here on SEW thinking it was spyware tracking across other websites!

[MikeLevin]

Good questions. You're helping me write my FAQ! Let me do a quick pass...

1. We just store enough data to make the app work. I know some tools expose IP, but I think from a privacy standpoint, it's not a good idea.

Sorting is already in there, but not searching. Implementing a search that lets you "jump in the list" is in the works.

There's not a lot of slicing and dicing the list based on criteria (querying), because it would make it so much more difficult to explain during this critical early beta.

2. The data is not packaged or sold to anyone. The company developing this considers reputation asset #1, and we would/could never do anything to jeopardize that. The success of this app requires that we respect privacy.

3. We have planned for scaling the app very large. You will notice in the tracking code, everyone has their own sub-domain! That means we can easily divvy up the users to different servers. There are a number of other clever technical things going on that lets this perform faster and scale better than most other graphics tracking systems.

4. Cookies: there's using the MLT site vs. tracking working.

The cookies must be turned on to use the MyLongTail site.

Tracking drops a non-persistent cookie, but it does not trigger any browser security warnings, because of our privacy policy and non-persistence. Tracking works either way.

5. Nope, we don't do the movement tracking across multiple websites. It's a valid concern. That's just going to have to be a matter of us publishing the policy and building trust over time. But the fact that the cookie is non-persistent should say A LOT about the non-intent (and indeed, inability) to track movement across sites.

Anyone else reading this thread?

[MikeLevin]

If I understand the question right, it's about the reduction of data into that small actionable list. One of the important concepts is that it's not actually analytics. There's a whole realm of features I'm keeing away from.

So think in terms of automatic list reduction. The first list is all the keywords that lead to your site. There's too much to wade through.

The second list is suggestions that are automatically chosen, based on how close they are to being real performers from a search-hit perspective. I'll talk about the chicken-and-the-egg issue here if you like!

The third list is just the suggestions that you've identified as appropriate for your site. You don't want to write about everything, but just things that are natural and logical subject matter for your site.

So, it's not really about manipulation of keyword lists as much as it is about producing one very short list.

[Robert_Charlton]

This is Mike Levin from the early days of SEF....

Hi Mike - Yes, a bell begins to ring. Hello. OK, you're a longtime prominent member of the community... and that draft of your FAQ takes a step in the direction of a privacy policy... BUT I'm just not getting why it's necessary to phone home with all our referral data. Still makes me incredibly nervous. I'd rather just track my referrals and then have a tool to create long-tail info from that referrer info or my logs.

Or maybe the tool would make sense as part of a fully-featured web-based site stats system... but just as an add-on, I'm hesitant.

Take a look at this recent discussion on SEWF, which has some similar considerations....

Thoughts On New Click Fraud Index & Network?
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=11156

[Marcia]

Please explain here on the forum a lot more about the program, because many readers will not bother to go to your site believe it or not, they will want to read about it and discuss it here!Anthony, if that's the case then the lurkers won't be participating in the testing anyway. The purpose of this forum is not to have discussions about tools out there, it's to beta test tools; that's the purpose of this forum.

What do you think your readers will be most interested in? OK, lets get that point straightened out. Mike, they're Search Engine Watch Forums' readers and the Moderator of this forum is orion (Dr. E. Garcia), who has done a post that's stickied to the top of the forum that thoroughly explains it. This particular forum is strictly for beta testing, which Dr. G has mega knowledge about. Your post is fine, posting the URL is fine (that's what this forum is for, to get testers and give feedback). If you have any questions at all you can PM the Moderator.

< personal sidebar>
BTW Mike, I do remember you well from a few years ago over at Jim's, where I started out - and you're responsible for many a sleepless night for me since then. ;)

I remember you writing that you learned about search and SEO right at the search engines themselves, analyzing the serps to see what was working, and I never have forgotten that. I've spent many an all-nighter since back then counting characters, number of occurrences, sequences, placements on pages, etc, etc. - so I never have forgotten you. Inktomi either, flat rate annual placement was the most fun I've had in all these years.
</sidebar>

[MikeLevin]

Thanks so much for the mention, Marcia. Nice to be remembered, Sniff.

I remember both you and Robert very well, and totally understand Robert's view. Robert, you were one of the much more technical folks who could do just what you describe (grepping logs, etc.). But this is very much about bringing those technical capabilities to the folks in the average marketing department.

As with analytics, the marketing folks just ask the IT folks to put this code in the templates, and voila. Their information starts coming in in a more directly useful fashion.

It applies quite nicely to SEO for doing the things that someone like you or I could do by grepping log files. But it does go a step further by figuring out what terms are worth optimizing for.

As an add-on, it's powerful because it focuses right in on the task. I'm going after simplicity. It's a tough concept for people outside the SEO circles.

[MikeLevin]

OK, here's an interesting beta test question for you. How important is the name and logo to understanding the site/app? Is it integral, or could the name easily be changed and the difficult concepts still come across just as strong?

[Wilksy]

Gday Mike!

Bit of feedback.

I am one of those pain in the ass mac users ;)

I waited for your video to load and no go. FYI, I am using Camino as a browser (basically FireFox cousin) and I was suprised it didn't work. I'd bet less than 0.5% of the net uses it so who cares!

But I noticed an interesting thing when I went to FF to test and typed in http://www;thelongtail.com/ oops, there goes the neighbourhood. Good news tho, it worked fine in FF. You might like to highlight the MY factor somehow.

Thought you might like to know.

[Marcia]

But I noticed an interesting thing when I went to FF to test and typed in http://www;thelongtail.com/ oops, there goes the neighbourhood. Good news tho, it worked fine in FF. You might like to highlight the MY factor somehow.It might work better using a colon instead of a semi-colon in the URL. :eek:

Was that used to access the site, or just typed that way here? ;)

[Wilksy]

I figured that site would be getting enough type-ins without needing any extra traffic from my efforts. :D

[MikeLevin]

Indeed, I need to fix Mac compatibility issues all over! It's one of the few things I sincerely need to apologize for at this point in Beta. I'm using a demo creator called Camtasia from TechSmith. It appeared pretty awesome for making cross-browser compatible demos from PowerPoint. But there is some JavaScript in there. I have to investigate whether it's introducing browser compatibility issues. Otherwise, it's just a Flash 8 shockwave file. Thanks for the information!

[Grokodile]

I watched your demo and signed up.

I have a tiny nit-picking thing to comment on. When I return to your site, the login link shows my name, but logs me out. Do I have to bookmark the inside page to get to it without logging in again, or am I forced to login every single time on purpose?

Anyway, the concept caught my eye in a matter of seconds. I immediately thought of those google users arriving from something like the 20th page of their search results (which I spot from time to time). It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

[MikeLevin]

I watched your demo and signed up.

I have a tiny nit-picking thing to comment on. When I return to your site, the login link shows my name, but logs me out. Do I have to bookmark the inside page to get to it without logging in again, or am I forced to login every single time on purpose?

Anyway, the concept caught my eye in a matter of seconds. I immediately thought of those google users arriving from something like the 20th page of their search results (which I spot from time to time). It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

It's a good nitpick. It's a user interface issue. You're only forced to log in again because I haven't provided a sub-link to the controls (only the logout link). I simply have to fix it. I can either doing it by switching the logout link to "return to controls" (or something like that) or add a link for "My Hit Tail" ot something like that to bring you back to the chart.

[MikeLevin]

The wonderful and cute name MyLongTail has served it's purpose, and we're positioning the tool to grow up fast, and join the ranks of Google and eBay, as a noun, verb and present participle. You can go to Google, be a Googler and engage in Googling. Similarly now, you can go to HitTail, be a HitTailor and engage in HitTailing.

We particularly like this new name, because in Retail, shelf space is limited. In HitTailing, shelf space is unlimited! As much as we like MyLongTail, we think with HitTail, we've got a name that will withstand the test of time and work its way into everyday language.

I plan to start attending more SES's. I can just picture everyone talking about "My Long Tail". As appealing as that image is, we think HitTailing is the way to go, and I am certainly interested in everyones thoughts here. Thanks!

[AnthonyCea]

I think it is a much better brand name Mike, again, I think adding the analytical features we discussed would do the product justice in the end.

[MikeLevin]

Hi Anthony,

Thanks for the feedback. We are keeping your feedback in mind. At some point, we will add some more analytics-like features, but until we feel more comfortable entering into a space occupied by a free tool from Google, the WebTrends standard, and a host of free and competitive products, we're probably going to focus most on developing HitTail as a writing suggestion tool.

There's no way around it, HitTail is going to have to work WITH your favorite analytics software to have the best effect. I know it's not what you want to hear Anthony, but we have to walk before we can fly. We're humble enough to know that. But we ARE listening to you.

Mike Levin

[AnthonyCea]

I understand it takes time to develop a tool such as this Mike, like you say features can be added when the time comes to add value to the tool.

[MikeLevin]

We've released a new demo of HitTail, which helps to explain the concept a little further. http://www.hittail.com/demo/

[unreviewed]

Great ad Mike. Perfect.