Open Letter of Frustration to SEO "Professionals"

[broadcast9]

As a small business owner, I am completely frustrated with my search for a reputable and capable SEO firm- specifically in the area of pay per click management.

A few disclaimers up front- I run a cell tower lease consulting company doing about $15,000 annually in PPC advertising. So far, I have done my own PPC management- but I have realized that it is time for me to hand it over to an expert who can do so more efficiently. I have no issue with increasing my ad budget - if the conversions increase as well.

However, trying to search for a reputable PPC firm is like trying to find an honest used car dealer- they exist but they don't make themselves easy to find. Seems like every web designer or host believes they can do SEO. And their are millions of angles- everyone has one. Every forum seems to have a million self serving posts- including Search Engine Watch. So unlike other forums- you can't trust anything you read because most posts are from people looking to optimize their own SEO pages.

So I dredge the web looking for good solid information- buy some software like SEO Elite (well worth $167)- contact an expert who performs a Linking analysis (well worth it as well- not for the content but for the education on linking) and ask everyone I come in contact with for a reference to a good PPC management firm.

I get back a handfull of references- and contact those that either have glowing references from associates that I directly spoke to- or those that come up multiple times. Some have a secretary answer the phone, ask what my advertising budget is- then never call me back. Apparently, even though I am willing to agree to their pricing listed on their website, my inquiry does not even deserve the courtesy of a polite dismissal. Others send polite emails dismissing me- primarily because they are too busy.

Not one of these entities that I was referred to- inquired further about my needs. None thought to ask whether I owned any other sites- or had any future plans for new sites whereby advertising might be more of a priority. None considered that I could refer them to other clients of mine in need of SEO. Could it be that these short sighted business practice are a result of techies being technies first, and business managers second?

I fully understand the need to prioritize - and filtering potential clientele- because we all are in business to make a profit. But I have never failed to respond to an inquiry to my website - NEVER. Because the people who have taken the time to inquire because they read articles on my website deserve the common courtesy of an answer. Because, these individuals may not be meet my threshholds for entertaining them as a client- now- but they may in the future.

Please don't post telling me that you could assist me- or pointing me to other posts in the forum with lists of so called reputable SEO firms. I have seen them- they are either self serving or I have contacted them.

Thanks for allowing me to vent- and if I contact you in the future- please respond- even if its to tell me that you don't service clients in my price range.

[seobook]

>Could it be that these short sighted business practice are a result of techies being technies first, and business managers second?


that, or maybe hoping to have a chance to get a cut of 15K a year is just too little to give ongoing attention to.

there is more demand than supply for quality seo and good SEOs can make more doing many things direct. I dont think I would want to take on ongoing client work for less than 10K or more a month unless they client completely trusted me and listened to just about everything I said

[dazzlindonna]

there is more demand than supply for quality seo

That's definitely true, however, I do think common courtesy should rule, and you certainly should have at least been politely turned down. I guess manners isn't always everyone's forte. I hope you find the person or company you seek, who is available, polite, professional, and does quality work.

[broadcast9]

I grant that a few thousand in fees might not be significant enough for a company to take on my work- but then the vendor should not post a fee structure that encourages the belief that they are interested in this type of work. I post my fees on my website very clearly- because some people aren't willing to pay the $300/hour I charge and I would prefer not to waste their or my time. But Jumpfly posts fees that I was willing to agree to.

Secondly, this vendor failed to take the time to even discuss my goals - had they done so, they would have learned that I have hired a web designer to build a few new sites for me in alternative fields. Two of which will be built initially around PPC blitz campaigns while the natural optimzation is taking place. Short sighted.

Lastly- if there is so much demand for qualified SEO firms that they can choose not to even contact potential clients back- then why don't these firms expand. Maybe I don't understand your business model- but surely, there can be different tiers of service all of which would produce handsome revenue.

I also note with displeasure that my original post was edited to remove the name of the company I was disappointed with. Apparently it is unacceptable to the editors for posters to share bad experiences about a product or service, but acceptable to commend a service because they left the comments regarding SEO Elite in.

[sitecreations]

I want you to know that companies (and individuals) exist that will return calls, examine goals, and work with you with proficiency, professionalism, and carry a genuine interest in your business success. These folks are not a dime-a-dozen, for sure. The skill set required for SEM takes many years to acquire, and many unbillable hours a week to maintain.

There is a bit of a paradox in this business. Good SEMs are prime for burnout, and this might cause at least some of the problem. I hear burnout in the voices of other SEMs' voices all the time. Goodness, I'm starting to sigh almost as much as Danny Sullivan on the searchcast (http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/podcast.html) on some days.

It's an emotionally, socially, and technically draining job. I've been involved in high-stress, Silicon Valley companies at many levels and can tell you that SEM is by far the most difficult gig I've done. You get so INVOLVED with each business that it becomes like owning a bunch of small companies. Chris Sherman's write up (http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/article.php/3604566) says it all.

You must understand the customers and the business goals - hard enough for one company, but 4,5, 20! You can skim over them, and half-ass it, but then you're suddenly not good at SEM. What's worse is when the business decision maker becomes an actual ADVERSARY in the process - rejecting changes, ignoring ideas, etc., while still expecting results. Even when you have a wonderful, cooperative partner in the process - you find yourself collapsing after work!

On PPC as well, I'm careful to not over-employ myself with clients and become mediocre. PPC bid management is very time consuming if you genuinely want to have one of those beautiful upward conversion curves. Split testing ads and landing pages requires careful record keeping and patience. It's worth it in the long run, but takes so much attention that it's hard to split between more than just a few clients.

I have a couple of databases in place that help me to manage these inquiries in a professional, personal fashion (usually by phone) I make it part of my day, every day, and feel thankful that I'm in demand. I want everyone inquiring of my firm to feel they were treated professionally, even if we cannot do business.

But one word about phone calls. While my voice mail greeting says very specifically that email is a vastly better way to reach me, I still get more than 15-20 voice mail messages a week to follow up on. I'm one guy.

What I find is that 80-90% of these folks have not even read a SINGLE page of my website and many of them are in the "$199 submit to all search engines frame of mind".. They just want a 'price' or free advice. When I say I'm happy to provide a refundable consultation (I refund that initial fee if they engage later) they just get annoyed. It's impossible for me to do free consultations - I get right to the meat of the matter when I talk to clients. In a 30 minute session they will walk away with real, tangible solutions to help their sites, and I deserve to be paid for it. So I decided that if they'll take the time to contact me via my short, sweet site form, I'll definitely call them or at least write a thoughtful email. It's worked for me and most of my clients are delighted. It's the mildest form of qualification.

I'm not implying that you are looking for free advice or any such thing - you appear to be great client potential and someone will surely be lucky to work with you! I'm just putting a little bit of a portal into a 'day in the life' perhaps. And so - I ask that you not throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. Many of us care deeply about the success of our clients' business.

All the best luck.
Scott

[Chris_D]

I also note with displeasure that my original post was edited to remove the name of the company I was disappointed with.

http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/faq.php?faq=vb_read_and_post#faq_outsourcing

[jag]

i suggest to go for natural listing, since its a long term and helps the business to be listed amoung many search engine and its servers

- ALl the best
Jag
SEO Analyst

[broadcast9]

Gents,

Just a work of thanks- I appreciate all of the thoughful commentary to my open post of frustration.

First one update- I sent an email to one of the vendors who failed to contact me, Jumpfly- they replied immediately and indicated that their sales rep was on maternity leave. Patience is truly a virtue, one I know I don't have.

Site Creations- thanks specifically for your reply. I found it interesting and a good testament to the day of a life in SEO. I deal with a very similar issue- many people do want free advice. More importantly, many people who want free advice feel more entitlement to the advice than my paid clients. So the result is better screening processes- clearer descriptions on my website on when it is appropriate to contact me.

One question to you and the board- if the good SEO firms are in so much demand- why not expand? Is there a lack of quality people for hire? Are there schools with programs on SEO? Or is there residual concern that this business won't last and that you will end up letting people go?

PS- I have done natural search optimization- in many of my keywords I own 4-5 of the top 10 spots. I have just found that the number of clients coming through the door increases when I do paid as well. Enough to justify both.

Thanks,

Ken

[PhilC]

Because the people who have taken the time to inquire because they read articles on my website deserve the common courtesy of an answer.
I agree with you, Ken, but I have to say that I am guilty of not replying to email enquiries for my services just about 100% of the time. I know it's not good, and it's not nice, but I do it. Your post has caused me to rethink that practise.

Btw, I don't do PPC, so I'm not one of those who snubbed you ;)

[fathom]

As a small business owner, I am completely frustrated with my search for a reputable and capable SEO firm- specifically in the area of pay per click management.

Interesting enough you really don't need to look too far... try here:

http://services.google.com/ads_inquiry/en

As I understand they come "highly recommended" and instead of paying a third party - this company will do it for FREE!

[vayapues]

From My Perspective: (Not saying my perspective is right)

I understand all to well the perspective of the SEO firms that did not respond to you. I personally get annoyed when people call or email, wanting work done. Yet at the same time, I encourage them to do it.

With all I have going on, I do not have the time, nor the inclination to take on more work.

However, knowing that someday I might need the work, I have to keep my name out there. In other words, I want to get and build up leads, I just don't have any time to respond to them.

As long as I have leads, I have a livelihood. It does not matter that I don't respond to the ones coming in today, because I don't need them right now, but if I do need them, I can start responding. They are right there, ready for me to use to keep myself employed.

I am sure I annoy the folks I don't respond to, and it is not that I don't care, but... well, I don't have time to care. If I annoy everyone who I didn't respond to in the past, it does not really matter, because everyone in the future is a fresh person, who I have not annoyed yet, and who doesn't know any of the other people I did annoy.

I realize that nothing is more powerful than word of mouth, but generally people forget the name of the ones who did not respond, and so I really don't get any negative press. If I take on a job, I am very careful to give my full attention to it, so that I get nothing but satisfaction.



This winter I stuccoed my home. It looks great by the way. There is a huge construction boom right now in Utah that is keeping all the stucco guys very busy. I called 40 companies. No one would even return my calls. After two months I finally got one person to come give me a bid. I probably paid too much, but I could not get anyone else, so I went with them. It took another two months before they could even get to me. Which is why we did it in the winter. I was frustrated. In fact, I commented to a few people about how rude it was that no one would even have the courtesy to call me back. ;)

Slap in the face. now the shoe is on the other foot. But you know, I don't remember any of the stucco companies names who did not return my calls. If I ever need stucco again, I will go through the same list. I am not spreading bad press about them to my family or neighbors, so they have really not lost anything.

Your post is appreciated, and does make me stop and think. It also makes me feel some sympathy for the stucco guys, or at least understand their position a little better. They are on ladders all day, and are scheduled for the next six months. They don't have the time or inclination to return my call.

I will still continue to not return leads, but at least now, maybe I will feel a little more guilty about it. ;)

[sitecreations]

What I try to do is just that - get these folks on a tips email list and provide what amounts to really good quality advice every so often. This maintains my connection to them despite my inability to engage formally. I'm still working on this setup.

About the "why don't you just expand" question. I think it would take a lifetime to find someone who has the necessary skills to assist in a way that I could afford, both in costs and time-overhead.

Those SEMs I know who I'd *love* to work with are already running their own show. Someday I may find a partner and we could possibly go in together doing this work so that there is a fluid equilibrium of work passed among us. It just takes a lot of trust, and time to get there.

I think there is about to be a major wave of "Fortune XXXX" companies and ad agencies grabbing up independent SEMs for permenant staff positions, and the independent-consultant-demand problem is going to get worse.

[vayapues]

I had a partner once. He was a great guy, and really very good at what he does. One of the best in the industry imho. But having a partner can be and often was frutstrating.

It is like a marriage, only with a lot more money on the line.

I think a lot of us don't want to expand. We are making as much money as any other high-end industry, more money than most, and enjoy the work-at-home life style.

[broadcast9]

Thanks for the discussion- it has been lively and enjoyable.

One tool that I have used to great advantage is Macro Express. Allows you to create custom macros for virtually anything. I have created form responses for different sorts of inquiries- that are tied to a keyboard short cuts. Takes me 15 seconds to respond to anyone. I provide them enough information in the email that they shouldn't feel jilted by the lack of a phone call.

[simons1321]

One question to you and the board- if the good SEO firms are in so much demand- why not expand? Is there a lack of quality people for hire? Are there schools with programs on SEO? Or is there residual concern that this business won't last and that you will end up letting people go?



It's a lack of quality people in my opinion. Many schools (universities and colleges) can't really offer classes in SEO or SEM (SEO especially). For instance while i was working on my eBusiness degree, they tried implementing an SEO/Natural Search/Internet History class, but at the time the Florida update was occuring and several chapters in our textbook became entirely useless in about a month(note: our text book was published early 2003), not to mention my professor believed that SEO was not possible. The class then became more of an Internet history and basic Search Engine class. Not to mention, SEO/SEM professors are one in a billion. Many of my professors came from the marketing department, so its not like they knew what they were doing. I remember one of my professors didn't even know how to make a website and he was teaching eBusiness/eCommerce classes!!!! Eventually towards the end of my degree the school started hiring industry professionals, but even then they lacked in an important area of eBusiness/eCommerce or didnt know how to teach.

Now that i look back on my degree, I would say that 90% of what I learned is obsolete.

Most of SEO/SEM is a learn by doing process since the industry constantly changes. So i think it becomes hard for many SEO/SEM firms to hire new people who already know what they're doing.

[vayapues]

One question to you and the board- if the good SEO firms are in so much demand- why not expand? Is there a lack of quality people for hire? Are there schools with programs on SEO? Or is there residual concern that this business won't last and that you will end up letting people go?


I think a lot of it is the fact that MANY of us work from home, and have all the work we can handle, and than some.

We are not interested in the stress of running an office, or managing employees. Just take the work, sleep in, work late, all the vacation we want, etc.

For many of us SEO is a lifestyle, not a business.

[sitecreations]

Well said! SEO is a lifestyle.

It would be IMPOSSSIBLE for me to accomplish proficient SEO in a corporate environment. There is far too much concentration required in SEM, and there is simply no room for beurocracy in this business - everything moves damn fast, just like simons321 said. I know it's done, but I have no idea how! In my cubical days, I spent at least 40% of my time in spin-up, spin-down time dealing with lost concentration.

Hopefully without getting TOO far off topic, but does anyone know of another gig that requires PROFICIENCY in so many disciplines to be in the top, say 15% skill-wise?

Off the top of my head, I have to act in these roles:

direct marketing / retail marketing
programming / network design
statistics / analytics
sociology / psychology / human factors
design (retail, digital)
copywriting / storyboarding / ad writing
split testing / analytics / survey design
accounting (small biz)
media buying / negotiation

No wonder it's hard to return calls sometimes.

[Jeff Martin]

Secondly, this vendor failed to take the time to even discuss my goals - had they done so, they would have learned that I have hired a web designer to build a few new sites for me in alternative fields. Two of which will be built initially around PPC blitz campaigns while the natural optimzation is taking place. Short sighted. I don't know of any agencies (ones with offices and not two people working out of their homes) that would take a $15k a month PPC client. The most an agency would probably make from offering their PPC services is $250 a month. That's probably less than 2 hours work, even for an independent consultant. Like Aaron mentioned, the agencies where I have colleagues at usually won't take a client on unless they are spending $5k-$10k a month. Agencies just can't spend the kind of time they need to properly manage an account at that rate. If they tried to take it on they would probably be setting themselves up for failure.

There is definitely a shortage of reputable SEM agencies out there and agencies with the right visibility are turning business away. Because of this if you call in with a $15k annual PPC budget and I have several leads in the pipeline for $100k+ annual PPC budgets it is easy to get lost "in the noise". You may want to consider up talking your other sites in the initial contact. While I believe it is a professional courtesy to send a follow-up contact there are only so many hours in a day and when your sales team is bombarded with leads and have to hit their numbers sending "thanks, but no thanks" emails falls down the list of priorities.

if there is so much demand for qualified SEO firms that they can choose not to even contact potential clients back- then why don't these firms expand. Maybe I don't understand your business model- but surely, there can be different tiers of service all of which would produce handsome revenue. They do expand, usually in client services and support roles though from my experiences. Expert SEOs and SEMs are very hard to find and require considerable, yet justified, salaries. In addition, the popular business model I have seen is wait till you are over capacity then bring someone in. It is a "safer" model, but an agency runs the risk of burning out it's people. Also, there probably won't be any sales force added unless there are more qualified leads then there is time in a day to get to. Different tiers don't work well in my experience. Clients expect to have results and not excuses. As an agency I want to make sure that I have enough time and materials to devote to a client to make sure they are successful. The experts time are still costing the same amount so that may not leave enough time to devote to the client to be successful.

One question to you and the board- if the good SEO firms are in so much demand- why not expand? Is there a lack of quality people for hire? Are there schools with programs on SEO? Or is there residual concern that this business won't last and that you will end up letting people go? Yes, there is a definite lack of expert people to hire. When agencies look for people we can get bombarded with resumes from every web designer or web developer who think they know what SEO but who have no practical experience doing it (as you mentioned) nor know what it really entails. There are no professional schools or schooling I have seen where you graduate and are degreed or certified. This has been a topic of discussion for several years and one that SEMPO has avoided. I don't believe the SEO/SEM business model is in any immediate jeopardy.

[curious coder]

I'm reading all the posts and finding it all quite interesting. First, I'm new to this site - my first post right now. I'm a project lead in a rather large TS shop. I'm leading a large team. We develop new web tools for our accounting customers (customers are internal to the company). Since my team is so big, I don't get to code anymore. I really miss it. I recently started playing with a dorky little website just to keep my fingers on the keyboard - you don't use it, you lose it! So this is how I got interested in SEO. About the time you think your smart, something comes along and humbles you into the fact that you really don't know it all! In fact it was my quest to learn more about SEO that got me to this site.

I can attest to the comments about no classes, training, etc. available - I've been looking!

To address the supply/demand issue, have any of you accomplished folks entertained taking on a "trainee" or a mentee of some type of arrangement? Personally I would be more than thrilled to volunteer my time to help someone with their work just for the sake of learning the craft. Give me the mundane crappy work that you don't like doing just so I can learn how to do it. Any thoughts?

[andrewgoodman]

Gents,

Just a work of thanks- I appreciate all of the thoughful commentary to my open post of frustration.

First one update- I sent an email to one of the vendors who failed to contact me, Jumpfly- they replied immediately and indicated that their sales rep was on maternity leave. Patience is truly a virtue, one I know I don't have.

Site Creations- thanks specifically for your reply. I found it interesting and a good testament to the day of a life in SEO. I deal with a very similar issue- many people do want free advice. More importantly, many people who want free advice feel more entitlement to the advice than my paid clients. So the result is better screening processes- clearer descriptions on my website on when it is appropriate to contact me.

One question to you and the board- if the good SEO firms are in so much demand- why not expand? Is there a lack of quality people for hire? Are there schools with programs on SEO? Or is there residual concern that this business won't last and that you will end up letting people go?

PS- I have done natural search optimization- in many of my keywords I own 4-5 of the top 10 spots. I have just found that the number of clients coming through the door increases when I do paid as well. Enough to justify both.

Thanks,

Ken

Hi Ken,

Yes, there is a lack of quality people for hire. Partners in reasonably successful smaller SEM firms aren't interested in paying huge salaries, either, certainly not the ones you see floating around. But that's how the whole modern economy seems to look now - recruiting is a constant issue for many companies. The fortunate thing is that "fit" seems to matter to some people as much as money.

Prequalifying and as sitecreations said, getting so deeply involved with people's businesses, is a far more consuming pastime than many realize. If many of our firms are in the range of 1-15 people, they are often just at the break point where they become functionally specialized enough to build better processes. Sales is something many of us never used to give much thought to.

The firm you were disappointed in always surprises me because they are always so aggressive in their promotion. You'd think they would have too many leads (in fact, I heard as long as two years ago they would not work with a variety of clients and partners who attempted to engage them, yet there are those ads still running all the time).

Those sales type hires are probably even more subtle in their requirements than standard project manager hires, because the prospective client is so dialed in and sensitive to the idea of just talking to a "sales guy," that we need to hire people who are organically - instinctively - grassrootsly "into the search thing." So it's definitely all about growing pains. While many owners of SEM firms know and understand that they need to transition from working in the business to working on the business, it's a matter of actually doing so through several transition periods, and they may not have gotten into the business with much business background at all. But anyone can learn, and I suspect a lot of us have done so.

We will always, however, be fighting the influx of silly inquiries that are expecting a magic bullet answer, and that's always going to lead to occasional differences of opinion in the getting-to-know-prospects stage, no matter how intelligently our firms expand.

[andrewgoodman]

I'm reading all the posts and finding it all quite interesting. First, I'm new to this site - my first post right now. I'm a project lead in a rather large TS shop. I'm leading a large team. We develop new web tools for our accounting customers (customers are internal to the company). Since my team is so big, I don't get to code anymore. I really miss it. I recently started playing with a dorky little website just to keep my fingers on the keyboard - you don't use it, you lose it! So this is how I got interested in SEO. About the time you think your smart, something comes along and humbles you into the fact that you really don't know it all! In fact it was my quest to learn more about SEO that got me to this site.

I can attest to the comments about no classes, training, etc. available - I've been looking!

To address the supply/demand issue, have any of you accomplished folks entertained taking on a "trainee" or a mentee of some type of arrangement? Personally I would be more than thrilled to volunteer my time to help someone with their work just for the sake of learning the craft. Give me the mundane crappy work that you don't like doing just so I can learn how to do it. Any thoughts?

To curious coder, my company does look for trainees of this type - often it's the best way to find a terrific employee fit and maybe a friend for life. In my case they currently need to be located in Toronto. :)

[curious coder]

To curious coder, my company does look for trainees of this type - often it's the best way to find a terrific employee fit and maybe a friend for life. In my case they currently need to be located in Toronto. :)

Andrew-

Thanks so much for the insight. For now, I'll keep reading. Maybe in the future I'll get a taker on the volunteer offer. Any suggested reading you can throw my way would be greatly appreciated. I visited your website and will start with your book. Hopefully this is ground zero (pun fully intended!) info since I'm so green in this area.

Regards,

Curious Coder