SEMPO Needs Breathing Room Articles

[Joseph Morin]

In this article written by Christine Churchill (http://www.e-marketing-news.co.uk/sempo.html) an unofficial response from a SEMPO Board Member is made to Mike Grehan. The interesting twist is that Christine is Mike's Associate Editor of E-Marketing News as well as a friend and SEMPO Board member.

[hiero]

Well.......after reading both of the referenced articles in this post I gotta say I'm still where I was before. I don't see why joining SEMPO would be advantageous to my business. I still can't see an answer to my question which is "what have you done for me lately?". I don't see the "Win/Win" relationship that I would expect to have with SEMPO.

I posed the question in another thread for someone to explain what SEMPO had done for them lately and I received one response. Not exactly what I was looking for. :(

[mcanerin]

>I don't see why joining SEMPO would be advantageous to my business

This outlines a big issue. If SEMPO remains a 501 (c) (6) the answer is basically - nothing. The idea of a non-profit is to benifit the industry as a whole, not the individual members.

You should want to join out of the goodness of your heart and your keen interest in the advancment of the industry.

The problem is from where I sit that doesn't seem to be what the members want. Or most of the non-members, either.

My opinion,

Ian

[hiero]

You should want to join out of the goodness of your heart and your keen interest in the advancment of the industry.

I understand what you mean, but if I did that for everything I'd be broke by now.

After going to the inaugural SEMPO meeting and listening to their media hyped presentation I walked away asking myself why I thought they were so self promoting. I would like to see organizations such as this help their membership.

[ihelpyou]

Hi Joseph, Are you posting that article because you thought it was good? What did it tell us that is any different?

I also think that the vast majority of the current members haven't given up either. My dear friend Barry Lloyd whom Mike quoted as saying "I gave them $5000, what more support do they need?" will be the first to tell you he is renewing his SEMPO membership. He landed his biggest contract ever partly because he was a member of a professional industry organization. Congratulations Barry!
Are you kidding me Christine? Is this what you think SEMPO is all about and should be about? Is this the message you wish to give ALL potential SEO clients out there?

If it is, then SEMPO does NOT get it. My gawd Christine, of all people, I thought you would at least "get it".

I was very wrong.

If SEMPO is going to simply do business as normal, then you best start VETTING your members. Vet current members AND new members. If you are going to keep advertising your members and also keep saying that IF you are a SEMPO member you must be "BETTER" than everyone else, then you better do the darn research of the current members first.

You will have a lawsuit on your hands if you don't.

You may have a lawsuit on your hands sooner than that if SEMPO insists on misleading the public about the members of SEMPO.

Of course, this has nothing to do with Barry. He knows what I mean by this post.

I'm pissed off.

[ihelpyou]

http://www.sempo.org/about-sempo.php

The major points all forums have including this one is that board members promote themselves and allow members to promote themselves using the SEMPO membership.

That's against the law. Period.

But yet, we still see links. Nothing has changed. Christine did not answer any single question asked in here. All that article was meant to do is to tell people how great they MUST be because they are a sempo member, and others will think they are great as well.

That's the promotion of the membership. That's illegal.

[Jill Whalen]

Are you kidding me Christine? Is this what you think SEMPO is all about and should be about? Is this the message you wish to give ALL potential SEO clients out there?

If it is, then SEMPO does NOT get it. My gawd Christine, of all people, I thought you would at least "get it".

Hey Doug,

Lay off Christine. You have no idea how hard she's worked to keep SEMPO on the right track and in fact, to do many of the things you yourself would want to do. She IS the voice on the board of the people like you and your concerns.

And if you're upset by SEMPO, why should they care? They have 250 or whatever members that they need to answer to, not you.

If you've read my other posts about SEMPO, I have no allegience to them. They've made a ton of mistakes and seem to be continuing to do so. However, one of the few GOOD things about SEMPO is that Chris is on the board. If she goes (as I would have done in her place) then I would be really concerned for their future direction. With Christine there, they may actually have a chance.

Just my two cents.

[donut]

Honestly, SEMPO is an organization without a mission or a vision. Barbara Coll signed on to promote herself, but she has no idea where she wants to see this thing go or how to get there... just keep getting speaking gigs and recognition for herself.

At the meeting in Boston last year, people kept saying, "Why should I join SEMPO?" and Barbara's candid answer was, "to make more money". She said the same basic thing at the used car sale, I mean kick-off meeting in San Jose. She's never hidden the fact that she thinks SEMPO is a way for large firms to increase their share of the marketing pie. She has never thought SEMPO should support the small business or have any other goal than raising the average fee for large SEO's. If you thought something different, you made it up yourself because she never said it.

I don't know if the others have ideas, goals, or visions; if they do they aren't speaking up. It was nice to see someone on the board own up to the fact that they've floundered, made mistakes, and are going to move foreward. I thought it was pretty brave of her to write that.

[projectphp]

They have 250 or whatever members that they need to answer to, not you.
Not to be a pedant, but isn't the point Ian just made the opposite of that? As a 501 (c) (6):
The idea of a non-profit is to benifit the industry as a whole, not the individual members.
As such, SEMPO has to, under their current incorporated state, stand for more than individual members, whose individual happiness is irrelevant next to achieving the goal of promoting an industry.

I think, in the context of what Doug wrote, and leaving aside the way he said it, whether Barry made a billion dollars or nothing is not suppossed to be SEMPO's concern. In fact, he shouldn't make anything as a direct result of membership.

Highlighting that he did benefit directly and quantifiably just muddies the water even more, and perhaps sets in people's minds that individual benefit and promotion of members is part of SEMPO's goals.

I was tempted to point that out to Christine when I first read the article in question, but by then it was too late (this morning Sydney time, about 3 hours ago).

It would be nice if Doug didn't jump to hyperbole so quickly, and learned to finesse his posts and consider the emotive impact, but on this particular occasion the issue raised is 100% valid.

[polarmate]

That's the one sentence that stays with me from the article, too. And unfortunately it reinforces everything else that has been brought to light about SEMPO till date.

I don't think anyone doubts Christine's efforts to make SEMPO stay on track. However, the major issues such as self-promotion, which still exist on the web site itself, were not addressed. The stipend by itself is a non-issue. If someone is putting in valuable time, they should receive remuneration, unless they are landed gentry. Sometimes, even landed gentry may want remuneration. ;) Which is also fine. It is the manner in which it was done, the basis used to decide the amount of the stipend, and how it remained uncommunicated to both its members as well as the SEM industry (remember non-profit status?), that remains the issue.

This seems to be Christine's personal response to Mike's article and I would take it as such and not as an official statement from SEMPO. It did not come from SEMPO; it came from an individual via a newsletter published from a third-party web site. It's not even an official SEMPO press release. In Christine's words, it's her 'rant.'

[ihelpyou]

Jill: You miss the point.

And if you're upset by SEMPO, why should they care? They have 250 or whatever members that they need to answer to, not you.
That's the point. They need to "stop" saying they represent the industry if in fact they do "not" represent the industry.

Plus, It does not seem Christine has much a say about anything at all. If she did, she would get those "promotional" links deleted off the SEMPO website.

Also: The fact that Christine and others continue to "promote" the fact that a SEMPO member "must" be better than others, is a BIG concern to many of us.

I wish SEMPO members would quit skirting the real issues and start answering all the questions instead.

[rustybrick]

I can say that I am a SEMPO member and I don't think I am better then any of you. :)

[Jill Whalen]

Don't you think that they're working on things as we speak? Obviously, they have a lot to do. How about we give them a few weeks to fix what's broken and see what happens. If in a few weeks we don't hear anything more about any of this and they simply keep on going as they've been going, then by all means, blast away at them. I'll be resigning at that time too.

But from what I understand, there are people (like Christine) who are fighting to change things. Blasting her right now is certainly not going to help anything.

[ihelpyou]

LOL Good one Barry! Too funny.

Further: This article did not have to be written at all to the public. I don't think many of us really care that Christine and Mike are friends and associates. That does not pertain to us.

We do care about what it is that SEMPO intends to do with all the concerns. So far, they have not done much of anything about the major issues. The article seems to be posted to get the message out that "potential clients" are hiring SEMPO members because they are members of SEMPO, so that is some kind of a benefit to members, and is some kind of a good thing. That's the whole point in a nutshell. That's wrong.

[Mike Grehan]

Further: This article did not have to be written at all to the public. I don't think many of us really care that Christine and Mike are friends and associates. That does not pertain to us.


The article was not written for the public as such. It was written specifically with the subscribers of e-marketing-news in mind i.e. Christine Churchill's own audience.

As a very prominent and well respected figure in the search marketing community, I believe subscribers to her newsletter are interested to hear both her personal and professional views. That's why they read her column. This was not a SEMPO missive.

The fact that Christine and I are friends and business associates and have entirely different views on SEMPO only goes to prove just how deeply divided the community is over the whole issue (make that issues).

That Christine and I remain loyal friends and active business associates proves the respect that we have for each others point of view.

I think that she has an extremely difficult task on her hands in trying to find the breathing space SEMPO needs if it is to prove that it can react to the members wishes in a positive and active manner. And I'm willing to give her that.

Regardless of my own personal feelings relating to SEMPO as an organisation, Christine Churchill gets 100% respect and admiration from me. After the hell and stress I've put her through this past few weeks, she's still on her feet fighting a very difficult fight.

And that takes guts, determination, loyalty and total professionalism.

All of which she's showing in abundance.

[ihelpyou]

Oh Yes. I agree with that entirely.

The issue is though that your points brought up by your article for the most part have not been addressed whatsoever. They are the same concerns of many for well over one year and not a blot of change has happened.

We still see the promotion of sempo members in every way. Christine wrote this:

I also think that the vast majority of the current members haven't given up either. My dear friend Barry Lloyd whom Mike quoted as saying "I gave them $5000, what more support do they need?" will be the first to tell you he is renewing his SEMPO membership. He landed his biggest contract ever partly because he was a member of a professional industry organization. Congratulations Barry!
That is the 'using' of being a SEMPO member as some type of recommendation to the public. Substitute the name of Barry with some other SEMPO Circle members and you know exactly what I mean.

That's the crux of the issues. That issue is never addressed. Circle members are still promoting the fact they are Circle members and that they "must" be good SEO's or something. Like this for instance:

“White Hat” Search Engine Optimization Methods
We're proud Circle members of SEMPO, so we're not about to ruin our good reputation by using cloaking, keyword spamming and stuffing, or other non-standard methods of affecting search engine placement. We keep current on what is considered “safe”, as well as “aggressive” search engine optimization techniques.
can be found here:
http://www.sitelab.com/organic_seo_optimization.html

Mike; I understand exactly what you are saying and agree with it. We should not let things get off the path as to what the real issues are with sempo. They have had LOTS of time to correct these issues, and have not responded to much of anything at all.

A non-profit organization would not have the above paragraph on a members website. If they insist of promoting themselves using SEMPO has a recommendation, then SEMPO needs to be changed to a "profiting" organization. It's illegal the way they are doing things now.

The above paragraph is attempting to tell visitors they "are in SEMPO, so they cannot ruin their good reputation". Meaning that SEMPO gives them a good reputation.

[mcanerin]

Doug, I certainly understand your main concerns but on one of the minor ones I have to comment. I think it's hard enough to police your own communications without worrying about needing to police all member communications as well.

For example, although I'm most active on the High Rankings Forum, like many other SEO's I belong to several forums, including (for example) the IHelpYou forum (mostly in lurker mode, admittedly). I mention this for example purposes only, to make a point by doing a "logical replace".

For example, if I put:

I'm a proud member of the IHelpYou forum, so I'm not about to ruin my good reputation by using cloaking, keyword spamming and stuffing, or other non-standard methods of affecting search engine placement. I keep current on what is considered “safe”, as well as “aggressive” search engine optimization techniques.

How could you stop me? I'm not even directly claiming that the IHelpYou forum even stands for "White Hat SEO", just that I'm proud of my reputation in relation to it. Heck, for all anyone who has never heard of the IHY forum might know they might be a owned by the mafia (or a cult :eek: ).

There is no direct claim of "goodness" or "badness" involved, only that they are proud of their reputation. I'm also proud of my reputation vis-a-vis my local Chamber of Commerce. But they don't tell me I have to obey certain ethical guidlines, only that I be accurate when I state my membership status.

When you join any public organisation, regardless of what it officially stands for, you are placing yourself in the limelight by way of association, and thus your reputation is now public in relation to it.

I agree that it does appear that the quote in question does attempt to draw an inappropriate inference (even if it does not state it overtly), but holding SEMPO to task for it may be less reasonable than holding the firm in question (who wrote it and has editorial control over it) to task instead. I suspect SEMPO has enough problems without having to add editorial policing to it for all the members just yet.

My opinion,

Ian

[polarmate]

Isn't Dana Todd of sitelab.com on the Board of SEMPO, Ian? ;)

[MakeMeTop]

I have to echo Jill and Mike's plaudits for Christine! Regardless of what I may think of the internal workings of SEMPO - Christine is the person who had the patience to listen to a pretty irate me after the SEMPO meeting in Chicago last year, has consistently tried to look at things from the member point of view and is genuinely trying to right the many perceived wrongs with the organisation. She deserves support in an unenviable task.

The sad thing about her statement (which is true) is that the current reason for me renewing is mainly for marketing purposes instead of mainly for support for the organisation. I would prefer if it were the other way around!

[lots0]

I don’t often agree with Doug, But in this I do believe he is right. SEMPO as a non-profit 501 (c) (6), the activities of promoting and marketing its members is illegal in the US.

This is NOT looking good for the industry as a whole, the organization that is supposed to promote the industry as a whole, is breaking the law by its activities of promoting itself and its members..

I think having a US Federal Prosecutor take a look at the activities of SEMPO, just to make sure that no laws are being broken, may be a good idea at this point.

[Jill Whalen]

Let us know what the Feds say when you contact them, Lotso.

[lots0]

jILL I did not say I was going to contact the Feds. What I said was;
I think having a US Federal Prosecutor take a look at the activities of SEMPO, just to make sure that no laws are being broken, may be a good idea at this point.

[bethabernathy]

Well they were supposed to get back to me about helping them with a non-profit lawyer and a review of their practices. They were supposed to contact me one way or another within 72 hours from 8/10/04. That time has passed. I found a lawyer up here with non-profit experience who would look at the situation on a non-biased basis. (Although, I can see why they wouldn't want me involved :) ). Anyway, it just leads to their communication problems i.e. they still exist.

Does anyone know when their next meeting is?

I don’t often agree with Doug, But in this I do believe he is right. SEMPO as a non-profit 501 (c) (6), the activities of promoting and marketing its members is illegal in the US.

This is very true. It can be confirmed by calling the IRS Exempt Division at 877-829-5500 and asking for a Agent.

[dannysullivan]

Relating to the above, Beth's been diligently outlining the various issues about SEMPO's actions and its non-profit status over here: SEMPO & Non-Profit Legal Issues (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=1030). Good background and lots of references on the issue.

[dannysullivan]

Also, Kevin Ryan just posted his take (http://www.imediaconnection.com/content/4020.asp) on the meeting.

He's got a funny take on the stipend and spending issues ("Pricey trips on the SEMPO Boeing 737, Central Park apartment use, Wimbledon...) but concludes:

Speaking candidly, with the depth and breadth of bureaucratic process I have come to know and love in other areas of the ad industry, I am pretty impressed they were able to do anything at all in a year. However, that’s not to say the organization should be left to roam free without the watchful eye of its constituency.

[dannysullivan]

And one last thing -- please keep further comments to this thread about the points raised in either of the articles, rather the people involved. While Christine wrote the original article, it's not so much whether she's "good" or "bad" but rather whether SEMPO needs the breathing room she's asking for -- and that Kevin Ryan also seems to suggest. To that end, I've renamed the thread to focus on the breathing room aspect.

[NFFC]

On the Ryan stuff, he said:

"The truth is SEMPO has experienced unparalleled growth since its inception, a problem that might leave any group of professionals on a mission a bit lost for a brief moment. Going from zero to 250 members in a year"

Lets just put that in perspective; "unparalleled growth" + "Going from zero to 250 members". Honestly if a board of what are supposed to be the Internets leading marketers can't figure out in 12 months how to commuinicate with 250 [repeated for emphasis 250] people then....

If they had devided up the members between the board they could have personally visited them all.

[Chris_D]

SEMPO as a non-profit 501 (c) (6), the activities of promoting and marketing its members is illegal in the US.

Hey guys - I've got an answer - SEMPO should start promoting and marketing their NON US based members - you know, the 70 something members outside the USA!

:)

You have my URL SEMPO - feel free to promote it!!

:)

[Jill Whalen]

Well, this is weird. I got a SEMPO "newsletter" tonight, it didn't address any issues! Was kinda like the boring meeting, only shorter.

I thought perhaps they only sent half of it or something because it seemed to be just like one of those short newsletters that are a teaser for the actual content, and you have to click through for more. And yet, there didn't seem to be a link to click through for more. (Other than a press release and a rehash of the SJ meeting.)

I replied to the email to find out where the rest of the newsletter was, but no answer so far. (It's only been about 5 or 6 hours, so I'll see if they reply tomorrow.)

Maybe they don't need breathing room after all and simply think that everything is fine and dandy?

Weird!

[bethabernathy]

As a twist from my negativity, I checked out their site and they have a job listing for the Exec. Director position, and no reference to Webmama next to B. Coll. They have hired legal council? I think so, from a tc with D. Todd.

Anyway, I think it is good that the members or community help them along with in these posts. That may be what they need. It isn't fun to have to ride the coattails, but in this case, in this industry, that is just taking off, it maybe just the thing to do?????? And that is a question mark or 5. :)

[Jill Whalen]

Yep it seems they did. The email they sent did say this:

SEMPO Governance
- Lawyer engaged to review operations; preliminary review completed
- Governance documents in legal review

But without any elaboration. That's why I thought I was missing something. Why not tell us more about that? What did they find in the preliminary review?

[rustybrick]

To be fair, they did list out a dozen or so bullet points of what they will be doing. The detail was not there but it is a newsletter.

Here are some of the action points they will/are taking:
**** - SEMPO forum in beta (ok, so we can interact with all members)
**** - Increased membership communication (how so? by this email? its a start)
**** - Membership levels being reviewed (this is a good thing - who knows what the outcome will be but they are listening)
***** - Lawyer engaged to review operations; preliminary review completed
***** - Governance documents in legal review (by laws)
***** - Job description [for executive director] posted on*sempo.org (www.sempo.org/jobs.php)
**** - Advertising campaign launched August 2nd

There are other points I left out to keep this post short.

They are, IMO, doing more now then they did 6 months ago. Its a good start I think.

[bethabernathy]

It is a small step in the right direction. :)

[Jill Whalen]

Yes, but Rusty, there's no way for us to know what they're actually doing. They sent only their table of contents. I really think maybe they did it by mistake? They couldn't have meant to send only that, could they?

I'm going to email Barbara personally, because it's just too weird and doesn't make sense!

[bethabernathy]

"SEMPO Governance
- Lawyer engaged to review operations; preliminary review completed
- Governance documents in legal review"

Can we find out the details of the completed preliminary review by the lawyer?

[rustybrick]

Yes, but Rusty, there's no way for us to know what they're actually doing. They sent only their table of contents. I really think maybe they did it by mistake? They couldn't have meant to send only that, could they?

I'm going to email Barbara personally, because it's just too weird and doesn't make sense!

Jill, Please let us know what you find out.

Thanks!

[Jill Whalen]

They didn't do it by mistake. :eek:

That's what they meant to send.

So much for better member communication. So how long does anyone think they actually need for this breathing room?

Why in the world they aren't writing as much as possible on exactly what's going on behind closed doors is a mystery. I've heard talk that stuff is indeed going on. Why can't we learn about it?

By not communicating (well) after everything else, they seem to be just digging this big gigantic hole. How the heck are they ever gonna climb out of it now? This newsletter that they sent yesterday was their big chance to come clean about everything and they blew it. :rolleyes:

[bwelford]

they seem to be just digging this big gigantic hole. How the heck are they ever gonna climb out of it now?
Jill, I think that "big gigantic hole" has been dug for quite some time now.

You remember that phrase, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Tom Peters came up with another one to encourage change, "If it ain't broke, break it."

I think my best advice for the SEMPO Board at the moment is, "If it's really broke, just leave it the way it is." Keep your heads down and hope you can salvage something once the dust has settled some months down the road. Perhaps that's the present In-Action Plan.
:confused:

[Jill Whalen]

Have you been advising them, Barry? ;)

That definitely seems to be what they're doing. To me, that's just dumb, dumb, dumb.

I can't imagine being part of a board that believes in keeping everything secret from the members. I truly do not understand what they're doing and why.

Getting very close to just canceling my membership and forgetting about them all together. Originally I thought that because of the smart people they had on the board they'd be able to actually create something good over there, but it appears that they believe in secrecy instead of public acknowledgement of what they've done wrong. It makes it seem like they're guilty of something, even if they aren't. It makes little deals seem like big deals, when all they have to do is make a few detailed explanations about everything that is going on. Honest explanations.

But they choose secrecy and that is just dumb. Secrecy is never a good thing, that's just common sense. Maybe nobody over there has any common sense? Or maybe those that do are being shut up by those that don't?

Still not getting it, but also starting to care less and less (which certain IS their plan!).

[bethabernathy]

One thing I have noticed in deciphering their newsletter and website modifications are some admissions. While these items were not addressed directly there does appear to be a few items they have changed.

On the Sempo website B. Coll is no longer listed as Executive Director. These are questions I would like answered:

1) Did B. Coll resign?

2) If so, did she resign because, in fact, it was a conflict of interest for her to act as a member of the board, President and Executive Director?

If you read back through any of the Federal Tax law I have posted and read the Sempo job description for the new Executive Director position, you'll see that the Executive Director will report to the board. So, when B. Coll was in the (is she still?) the Executive Director position, it seems that she was reporting to herself.

This brings up the stipend (which I have also posted some Tax law on). This was not unilaterally approved. In fact, I am pretty sure that in the capacity of Executive Director B. Coll would have no say on the stipend. In recalling how that transpired it was because her personal business was suffering. So I am sure she was involved in the decision related to her stipend and the amount paid was based on her personal businesses revenue.

Next, do you really think they will pay the new executive director $100 per hour for a 40+ hour a week position? That would be a salary of $192,000 per year. Is this an acceptable salary for an Executive Director of a non-profit corporation?

The next item is the newsletter states: " - By-laws will be modified and legally reviewed to reflect new process"

Is this an admission that the current by-laws are not following the code for a 501(c)(6).

The next item stated on the newsletter: " - All new processes will be communicated to members"

3) I would like to see the new by-laws when they are prepared and I would like to see the old by-laws.

I would also like just a very brief explanation to my questions above #'s 1 & 2. Does that sound fair?

REMINDER, if you are a member, it is your legal responsibility assist in the governing of the operations of a 501(c)(6). I can see if I can get in touch with Ian (their legal advisor) to see what their plans are related to implementing a formal mechanism for members to assist with the governance of this corporation. I think that this is the next step, but people may just be too annoyed to participate, just thought I would throw that out there. :)

[rustybrick]

SEMPO PR volunteer responds to Jill's comments on the lack of detail in the member communication email at HighRankings Forum (http://www.highrankings.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8725&st=0&#entry90695).

[NFFC]

>board member

You sure? Paid public relations company I think.

[rustybrick]

Your right, he is not a board member. Sorry. He is a the PR volunteer for SEMPO.

[NFFC]

>He is a the PR volunteer

He don't get paid anything?

[Jill Whalen]

I'm not positive, but I'm thinking he might be a paid SEMPO PR guy.

[rustybrick]

Yup, I remember someone at SEMPO saying that he does get paid something for his work. But it sounded like he didn't get paid much... :confused:

[NFFC]

So let me get this straight..

He is not a board member, nor is he a volunteer, he is a paid [maybe poorly paid?] public relations person?

Don't take this the wrong way but Moderators are generally held to a higher standard than members, editing your post without stating the real reason falls below that standard imho.

[bethabernathy]

I am pretty sure he is paid. I have a good memory, just can't recall the specifics, but will try and dredge them up. :)

[rustybrick]

NFFC, I did not edit my post without giving a reason. Directly under your post about my mistake, I said "Your right, he is not a board member. Sorry. He is a the PR volunteer for SEMPO."

And back to the topic of this post; He is a member who is paid for his PR services, based on what I know. I can be wrong.

[Jill Whalen]

I've just asked him if he's paid, over at my forum. We might as well get the scoop directly from him.

[NFFC]

May just be me but you seem a little quick to support SEMPO even when the facts say otherwise.

[bethabernathy]

Unfortunately I bet they will not make their bylaws available. I requested their bylaws via email on 8/3/04. This is all supposed to be made available to the public upon request.

---------------------
Email dated: 8/3/04
Email to: info@sempo.com

Hi - Can you please mail me a copy of Sempo's By-Laws. My mailing address is:

SNIP

Sincerely,
Beth A. Abernathy
©2000-2004 Integrated Resource Management™

SNIP

-----------------------
It is unfortunate that I had to request their Application for Tax Exemption form 4506(a) from the IRS. I was told that should contain their By-Laws.

[dannysullivan]

I was actually going to post that Greg wasn't a board member when I saw rustybrick's post about the news over at Jill's, but had a call come in and am just getting back to this.

I think Barry was trying to say there was some official (or semi-official, depending on your view) comment from SEMPO about the email they sent out. I didn't read his particular post as "quick to support SEMPO." And since he doesn't work for SEMPO (that I know of), I'll forgive him for not knowing whether Greg is paid or not. He doesn't appear to be alone in this.

Let's move on. Concerns and comments have been noted.

[Jill Whalen]

Greg gets paid $4,000/mo for his sempo PR work (well his company does).

It's heating up over at my forum if you guys want to keep track over there instead of updating both threads....

Basically, I am of the opinion that they've had enough breathing room, and now it's time for answers. We'll see if we get 'em.

[rustybrick]

May just be me but you seem a little quick to support SEMPO even when the facts say otherwise.

Here are my personal feelings on SEMPO. I honestly am not bothered at all by what is going on. Its not on my mind during the day, it doesn't keep me up at night. Is this upsetting on an industry level? Yes! Does something need to be done? Yes! Do I think SEMPO is moving in the right direction? Yes.

When it comes to most hotly debated topics in this industry, I try to show both sides of the story to he best of my knowledge. If I see someone posts a negative, I try to find a positive. If someone posts a positive, I try to find a negative. Most the SEMPO posts are negative, I am trying to provide a positive post.

I always try to not post from "emotion" or "feeling". So I can often be posting information from one perspective when I might personally be on the other side of the street. :)

[NFFC]

>t doesn't keep me up at night

It does me though.

>Let's move on. Concerns and comments have been noted.

Gets my vote.

[bethabernathy]

I received an email notification that "ihelpyou has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - SEMPO Needs Breathing Room Articles - in the Search Industry Growth & Trends forum of Search Engine Watch Forums. This thread is located at: http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=1122&goto=newpost"

I can't seem to find the post. Is the forum broken or do posts get deleted without any explanation?

[Jill Whalen]

Beth, I also received that notification. Usually that happens when the poster changes their mind and removes the post before anyone views it. I think Ihelpyou probably did that. (Or a moderator here may have removed it, but they don't tend to do much of that moderating here, from what I've seen, so I am guessing it was just Doug himself.)

Jill

[bethabernathy]

I got a PM that Ihelphyou's post was off topic, that was the reason for deletion. I have had posts regularly editted and deleted. Still don't see the admission for Ilhelpyou's deletion. Could easily be my browser, my lack of computer skills, my interest in the Olympics.....

Anyway, related to this topic, I am hoping for some expansion on the last Sempo newsletter. And ... I finally, even with obtaining my own docs., am giving them 7 days, which = 8/29/04 to produce and make it right. I have it calendared.

[Jill Whalen]

What happens if they don't produce it in the allotted time frame?

[bethabernathy]

I have seen time frames for Sempo to make things right across the board. I have waited, formally requested documents, and given, hey who knows, maybe some good advice?

So, I have my timeline, what is yours?