SEMPO Next Steps & Mike Grehan's Second SEMPO Article

[seobook]

part deux covers the events around the San Jose SEMPO meeting http://www.netimperative.com/in_depth/Who_needs_SEMPO_Part_deux

[rcjordan]

Looks like Mike wants to "simplify membership" down to zero.

[dannysullivan]

Changed the title of this thread slightly, because I was just about to start a new "general SEMPO" thread and mention this article. I've also started several new thread -- back in a second to bring things altogether.

OK -- I'm back! First, those coming into this thread should know there's lots of background that can be found in the Mike Grehan Stirs Up SEMPO Controversy (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=775) and SEMPO Meeting at SES San Jose 2004 (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=894) threads.

Both those threads are now closed. Click here (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17) and you'll see there are a number of topic specific threads. Please -- please I beg of you -- check out and see if there's a topic already started about SEMPO and some issue that you can contribute to.

This should make it easier to see if there's consensus on particular topics -- plus perhaps for those involved in SEMPO to act on or push for particular changes.

Please use this thread for any general SEMPO comments not covered by existing threads. You should also please feel free to spin off new threads about particular topics.

In addition to Mike's recap of the meeting, thought this would also be of interest: SEMPO Looks Back, Pushes Ahead (http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3390761).

[seobook]

Changed the title of this thread slightly, because I was just about to start a new "general SEMPO" thread and mention this article. I've also started several new thread -- back in a second to bring things altogether.
it truely is amazing how you are keeping track of all of this. I would be pulling my hair out trying to :eek:

[rustybrick]

I would just like to quote the bottom lines in the article linked to by seobook.

They all have one thing in common: the sound of furious back-peddling and the odd waft of BS.

We do need a representative organisation. But we need one which is there to represent the interest of the individual members and not the board of directors and a few select "cash rich" SEM firms.

SEMPO admitted they had screwed-up in terms of their poor connect with the members and asked for more time and support. But as Barry Lloyd of “Make Me Top”:http://www.makemetop.co.uk (a Gold Circle member) commented: "I gave them five grand. What other kind of support do they need!"

Those are a few quotes I find most :eek:

[rcjordan]

>waft of BS

Understatement of the year.


>quote

I liked the imagery in this one: But I realise now, that had I attempted to say anything, it's most likely that six cheer leaders would have appeared stage left, high kicking and singing "hey SEMPO you're so fine..."

[ihelpyou]

http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3390761

That is bad stuff there. I hope it was awhile ago.

Oh yes, over one week ago.

I hope they have more of a clue since August 4th. To say they have not received any constructive criticism over the last year is very wrong. All the same concerns now were voiced "over" one year ago at various forums.

[rcjordan]

>All the same concerns now were voiced "over" one year ago at various forums.

I was admin at one of those forums at the time and can sign an affidavit to that effect. Coll, at least one director, and Danny got the very same concerns presented to them. Then, as now, Sempo responded by circling the wagons. This is not a new set of problems for this org.

[mtnviewmayhem]

Quoting the article from Clickz: "It actually served as a drum roll for all of the things we were going to be announcing," Todd said. "In reading the forums, people making suggestions or asking questions helped us to make sure what we were going to present met the demands people voiced in the forums"

"we were going to be announcing"

More like served as a drumroll for covering up mishaps and inaction.

From checking around, I didn't see anything before these exposing articles and posts, that SEMPO had a bunch of updates they were going to announce.

"Getting feedback is really hard. Getting positive feedback is even harder," she said. "This created a place for people to support us as well as give us constructive criticism, which is very important for us."

From what I gather, members were complaining about communication from the SEMPO board. How can getting feedback be hard when you don't seek it in the first place?

Pretty sad that we continue to live in a world where they only way to get some people to act on something is to expose flaws, criticize procedures, and constantly ride someone's behind. If someone or some entity has to be pushed like that from the beginning then that is the way it will always be.

[Mike Grehan]

From what I gather, members were complaining about communication from the SEMPO board. How can getting feedback be hard when you don't seek it in the first place?.

There's no way in the world I could let that quote go without acknowledging just how relevant it is to the whole issue.

Thank you mtnviewmayhem whoever you are.

Cheers!

Mike.

[steve sardell]

quotes are from Mike Grehan's article
it was with great anticipation that I looked forward to the SEMPO members' meeting scheduled for the first day of the search engine strategies conference in San Jose. Here, I felt that, not only my own concerns, but those voiced by many, many posts in the various industry forums would be addressed and resolved... Wrong

From the start SEMpo has been dodging. The inferred impression is they could care less, and seem to hold themselves above the all as if we were serfs.

If they couldn't hire a professional in that space of time to throw out a few newsletters and keep lines of communication open with the membership Now, how difficult would this have been for able SEMers?


I tip my hat to this line. It sums it quite well.
had I attempted to say anything, it's most likely that six cheer leaders would have appeared stage left, high kicking and singing "hey SEMPO you're so fine..."

[bethabernathy]

It is sad, but to date, seemingly true, that to get any response from Sempo requires fairly aggressive pursuits. That said I await their form 1024, Articles of Incorporation and application for tax exemption from the IRS. And ... their annual report dated 3/1/04 and certificate of incorporation from the State of Delaware.

[steve sardell]

During the start up of any organization there are the fors, the againsts, and the balancers. Thus far the majority of posts have been from the small operators who have gripes with the way SEMpo has been managed. These are not new grievences, but rather concerns voiced from the inception.

One of the major concerns voiced has been about the lack of communication and the lack of responses to inquiries. This lack of comminication is exemplified by the statement in the ClickZ article of August 4 She [Ms Coll] said that although the membership was never notified of the stipend, the board had planned to announce it at the meeting.I am certainly not against a stipend for work performed, but I do question management's fiduciary responsibility in delaying the announcement more than two and a half months.

As reported, during the meeting there was much applause for the first year accomplishments. I am curious as to why all these supporters of SEMpo have been mum during all the recent discussions. If they are content with the current mission and actions, I for one wish they would speak up and enlighten all the naysayers. If they prefer it to be a joint marketing endeavor of a select group, rather than a voice of the whole, let it be known, become a for profit corp, and we all move on.

I applaud Mike Grehan for taking his stance while so many others high profilers sat idley bye.

[mtnviewmayhem]

This lack of comminication is exemplified by the statement in the ClickZ article of August 4 I am certainly not against a stipend for work performed, but I do question management's fiduciary responsibility in delaying the announcement more than two and a half months.


I pondered about that too. How long would it have taken to write a simple message to members about the stipend? They said they don't have a "real" assigned lawyer so there goes the explanation of having to pass it through the right legal channels. Therefore, it would have taken what a few bits of time to write up a brief statement and post it to members? It had to be put off for a meeting at SES? I'm still confused about all of this "in order to find out about SEMPO updates" you have to attend their meetings at SES conferences.

[MakeMeTop]

As Mike quoted me, I just wanted to point out that my statement about the 5K was not made in a tone of anger but of some bewilderment! Lots of stuff was said about supporting SEMPO and my comment was in the context of if me coughing up the full wack on pretty much day one wasn't a statement of support, I don't know what is.

I'm a firm believer in trying to support all efforts to bring some credibility to the industry I'm proud to be part of and felt that SEMPO deserved to be given every chance to succeed - so I willingly contributed even though I realised it would not give me any instant returns in the UK. I like to think that my example may have been part of the reason that so many other UK organisations joined. It would have been nice to have had my (and other member) opinions on ways forward sought - as people who have pledged their support with our pocket-books, I'm sure we would have responded to any request, if asked!

I for one am not in the habit of sticking my hand up to volunteer for stuff to show committment, I thought I had done that - but I would have willingly given an answer if asked about specifics where I may be able to help.

It all boils down to communication, accountablity and trust by the Board in the membership - and vice-versa (IMO).

[andrewgoodman]

I suspect the answer is to be found somewhere in here, in the literature about goals in complex organizations:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22operative+goals%22+perrow&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

(Or more likely, buried deep in the "invisible web," aka research libraries -- Google doesn't link to much good stuff on this topic.)

The official goals of SEMPO are the things that are written down or stated by the leadership.

The operative goals may be studied by reviewing how things have unfolded in the past year, and how individual agendas have been promoted. Whether you look at links to member websites, budgetary expenditures, or other forensic evidence, it all adds up to a large gap between officially-stated goals and the goals as a visitor from outer space would be forced to describe them.

Charles Perrow wrote his seemingly dry article "The Analysis of Goals in Complex Organizations" way back in 1961 as a means of critique of hospital administrations that may not have patients' best interests at heart, or something along those lines.

Of course all individuals have interests and at some point we must take stated goals and objectives on faith. But as a double check, an examination of evidence -- resource allocation, internal power brokering, etc. -- is valuable IMHO in taking stock of what happened here.

Let's put it this way. Imagine if a hospital administrator (to use Perrow's example) put out press releases under the aegis of the hospital that concluded with a contact info linking to his private consulting business. Would this have been an "accident" or "oversight"? (Doesn't seem like that would be an "accident" or "oversight" when the PR person helping the cause is someone who promotes himself as an expert in integrating SEO and PR, and knows well the value of inbound links to improving search engine reputation scores.)

By contrast one may look at very different patterns that emerge, say, in some forums, open source communities, other nonprofits, etc. There is no particular reason one cannot pursue similar goals with a radically different power structure, funding arrangement, etc.

We all make mistakes. We can and should forgive mistakes, since we all make them. But to suggest incremental change as the solution is to take SEMPO's stated goals at face value. This is not something I'm prepared to do, not least in a roomful of SEO's - not until the organizational algo is completely revamped to render it relatively spam-proof. Yes, the idea of a more modest fee structure and wider membership is a start. (As a "proposal," that sounds remarkably like the common sense that should have reigned from Day One. It sounds remarkably like what I and others were saying form Day One.)

Rebuilding a broken concept is one path. But many of us are unafraid of the benign anarchy of the marketplace because we've chosen to make our living there. In short, whether you can cut it or not depends on innovation, strong PR, ethical conduct, etc. (at least IMHO) because what goes around comes around. De facto standards, ethics, and advocacy of our industry will evolve, SEMPO or no SEMPO. Nothing can be something. I'm comfortable for now with anarchy, with nothing. Those who feel the need for "something" will perhaps go right back to building this SEMPO thing. I suspect they will not be able to count on much member support at this time.

[ihelpyou]

Nice post Andrew!

This adds on to the above posts in this thread and why many will never back the org unless there are 'many' structural and conceptual changes to it:

This is an email to a sempo member. Names are deleted in it. This goes to show the "real" mission of the current sempo, and a mission many have voiced concerns over the past year. It's the true motives of many members. Of course, NO ONE is willing to state this as of course you cannot be a non-profit with this type of mission in mind.

It's a "circle" thing in that sempo wants to be known as the "IT" of the sem world with no regard to "who" some members are. They want the fact that a potential client "might" think that this group is the 800lb. gorilla of the sem industry, when we all know that cannot be the case. The perception sempo wants to give the outside world has been very clear to us for along time. SEMPO would never acknowledge it, but it's simply the facts as the facts have been layed out very clearly.

Here is the email:

Dear Name Deleted,

I am writing as the search engine marketing organization you are a member of was recommended to me as a body made up of highly qualified individuals and companies. I am anxious to align myself with a high quality entity to help my sites be found on the Internet. I have an introductory understanding of what your industry attempts to accomplish. I also have a rudimentary understanding of how search engines work, as it relates to moving a site up in the rankings.

My business is "Deleted". My site is deleted.com. It has not been marketed yet. I did a little marketing and attracted a bunch of visitors.

I realize my site is not designed to lend itself to search engine spidering, however I am most willing to modify anything about the sites to make them more search engine friendly.

Please let me know if you are interested in helping.

Thank you,

Name Deleted
This is the crux of the problem as I have seen it from day one. This is also the "secret" goal of the elite of SEMPO without actually stating it. It's very clear to most of us. It's also the reason sempo will never succeed if they cherry-pick the suggestions being made. They must completely redo the website, the concept, the goals, the everything.

The email statement above:

"body made up of highly qualified individuals and companies."

There ya go.

[Nacho]

Great post Andrew!

De facto standards, ethics, and advocacy of our industry will evolve, SEMPO or no SEMPO. Nothing can be something. I'm comfortable for now with anarchy, with nothing. Those who feel the need for "something" will perhaps go right back to building this SEMPO thing. I suspect they will not be able to count on much member support at this time.
However, I will disagree with your last lines and I will use my testimony to prove what SEMPO means to me.

I was one of the first members to join back more than a year ago as soon as I heard. The core values as quoted in their About SEMPO (http://www.sempo.org/about-sempo.php) section say:

SEMPO exists to fill the gaps in awareness and understanding of SEM, including educating marketing managers worldwide about what SEM is and how properly implemented SEM programs can provide some of the highest returns on investment possible in the marketing world today.
This was very clear to me, because I am in a niche where there is a lot of education needed for my goals to succeed, the U.S. Hispanic Market and Latin America that is.

I joined at the lowest membership level (for $299) and I knew that it was not just about the economic support to get a link and a few discounts in return. I was seeking a road where a formal organization could help me educate about these markets. Could SEMPO help me? I gave it a shot.

I approached both Barbara Coll, our president, and Dana Todd, Education Committee Chair, about my interests and goals. They responded immediately to my request and suggested writing a white paper on "Search Engine Marketing to the U.S. Hispanic Market (http://www.sempo.org/research/USHispanic.pdf)" to start and they would do everything they could to promote it to all members and other marketers looking for resources at SEMPO. So I did and submitted it to them. In less than 24 hours I received notice that it was already posted on the site. Not only was it under the research section, but they also featured it at the very top of the homepage. Then, they sent a newsletter to all members on 5/20/2004 with the following:

SEMPO Resources: Articles, Case Studies, Research papers

These resources are for your use to show others the value of SEM. . .
Ignacio “Nacho” Hernandez provides insights and data on demographic growth, segmentation strategies and online user habits of the largely untapped Hispanic market.
The communication with SEMPO has been great for me and I see outstanding support from the organization to continue helping me reach my own goals.

That doesn’t mean everything is a perfect world. I also believe that Mike Grehan’s first letter brought immediate attention to many opportunities for SEMPO to improve and correct, including communication about other decisions taken by the board. And I’m also positive that there will be many more ways to make this organization reach maturity.

In my mind, I understand what they have done on the first year to get it launched. There are many numerous tasks that result visible to the members, but there are many that are not. Then, also keep in mind that those who are running SEMPO are all over the globe with many tasks of their own from their firms and profession. All together, they have managed to recruit about 250 members and send out a first strike to the real marketing world that is not 100% Internet related.

In my opinion, there are many out there that are asking this new born baby on its first birthday to run a marathon, jump hurdles and break world records. I say, let it grow and let it correct its few mistakes. Forgive and forget. Right now, since I don’t have $5,000 to give, I find my time invested to help others learn about new ways of SEM is just as valuable. Looking at other firms and professionals following my recommendations is what I will love to see in return. Soon you will all have an organization to be proud of, I’m already proud of it and I will continue to support it.

[hiero]

Unfortunately I wasn't able to make this years San Jose SES :( , but I was at last years and did attend the first SEMPO meeting. I walked away thinking it was a major marketing hype campaign, and after reading these articles and posts, I'm GLAD I didn't.

[bethabernathy]

I like hearing things like that said in Nachos' post. I would like to hear more of that. Maybe start a thread? Anyway, the thing is that, while the board may have good intentions, they are on the wrong track as a non-profit organization. They must comply with very serious Federal Tax Law in order to gain the exempt status. Unfortunately, it is my opinion, that they simply have not had the time to organize properly, and have resultingly, have put their efforts at great risk.

[rustybrick]

Here is a quote from a person I know who has professional experience running a non profit. Hope it helps...

The other posting that you directed me to seem to focus on a different (very common) issue with these professional organizations. POLITICS always abound. There are always a few volunteers who do all the work. Of the rest, around 50% don't say anything, while the rest complain loudly. When you decide to hire paid staff, all hell breaks loose. Most important is a clear set of measurable objectives for the staff members. Even then, everything takes forever; and it takes a few rounds to find some truly competent staff. Even then, the old line of volunteers finds it difficult to butt out and just support efforts or give them a chance.

The issues I saw are a good sign of growing pains. Your new generation of "here now" bloggers certainly have more interactive, any time/any place communication tools than us old fogies had. This gets more "stuff" out in
the open quicker and straighter. But only if you get the "silent majority" to speak up.

[hiero]

In all fairness to SEMPO. I'd love to hear any success stories that people would like to share about their dealings with SEMPO.

I personally don't see what benefit I would have if I joined them. Please tell me what that would be..........

[ChicagoSEO]

You know, it is true - SEMPO success stories *would* be great - stories about why people support the organization, why they plan to continue to support the organization. With all of the forum-generated hubbub, there seems to be an imbalance of information.

Just one thing though.

We can't assume that because we don't see SEMPO supporters posting lengthy commentaries about their involvement that they simply "don't exist". Perhaps you should consider the fact that there are people and organizations who don't necessarily have the time - or desire to make the time - to read these forums (which often go round and round in circles)... let alone to post their personal stories.

It seems that for forum addicts, issues are viewed with such a myopic focus that the participants lose a fair amount of necessary perspective when trying to analyzie situations and determine causal relationships.

[seobook]

We can't assume that because we don't see SEMPO supporters posting lengthy commentaries about their involvement that they simply "don't exist".
they have had time for their PR man to post multiple posts. it would good PR if there was something there.

Perhaps you should consider the fact that there are people and organizations who don't necessarily have the time - or desire to make the time - to read these forums (which often go round and round in circles)... let alone to post their personal stories.
right, but they seem to have had a year where they lacked ANY desire for ANY feedback. its their fault that most of their feedback comes in forums due to THEIR poor communication network.

It seems that for forum addicts, issues are viewed with such a myopic focus that the participants lose a fair amount of necessary perspective when trying to analyzie situations and determine causal relationships.
I agree that things are embelished and overanlayzed. perhaps if there were legitimate feedback loops then there would not be such a grand need or desire to speculate? by keeping their members in the dark about their plans they are limiting what capacity their members can speak for that organization.

an organization which is intended to be a voice for an industry does not have much purpose if it doesn't really have much voice.

[withoutwax]

We can't assume that because we don't see SEMPO supporters posting lengthy commentaries about their involvement that they simply "don't exist". Perhaps you should consider the fact that there are people and organizations who don't necessarily have the time - or desire to make the time - to read these forums (which often go round and round in circles)... let alone to post their personal stories.

A point that works only if you're also argueing that SEMPO supporters consist mostly of those who don't have the time or desire to participate in forums.

SEMPO had a chance, now they've got an image problem. They're meant to be an industry body and well known members of the industry are starting to speak up about them. Many members of the industry are totally against what they appear to represent.

I think that SEMPOs future largely depends on who they employ to take the helm in the future. Somebody with experience of such organisations who can iron out the problems and give it a clear direction that serves the industry could resurrect it.

In my opinion SEMPOs problems extend beyond just communication with its members but also into communication with the industry. Quarter of a million in the bank; reckon they should be surveying what the industry and it's members want. Establishing goals based on that and then employ someone with a proven track record of doing just that. Build a house with shonky foundations and you'll only end up knocking the whole thing down.

[dshapero]

No doubt the SEMPO meeting could have gone better. More time should have been spent on the accomplishments of the organization (e.g. member recruitment, sponsor recruitment, fundraising, PR and website effort). Less time spent on a word from our sponsor.

I believe the organization has done a lot in a short period of time in the area of recruiting new members and building up a cash reserve. As the organisation moves forward, I feel SEMPO should work to provide resources and awareness for its members that enhance the image and credibility of the profession.

For example, I believe SEMPO should establish standards that members choose to abide by when joining. Guidelines will surely help each practitioner in securing new engagements and ensuring some form of consistency across the profession. I don’t expect the organisation to police or certify its members, however, having guidelines posted should help a client know what to expect from an SEO/SEM that is a member of SEMPO.

I also believe that SEMPO should encourage sponsors to promote the importance of Search while informing the public about SEMPO. Print media from vendors like Google and Overture that highlight the importance of search and the importance of SEMPO will have greater impact than an under funded campaign from SEMPO.

Lastly, Many non profit trade organizations rely on volunteers to execute programs and guide the organisation. It appears our board has been overwhelmed by there own success and could use a helping hand!

[ihelpyou]

For example, I believe SEMPO should establish standards that members choose to abide by when joining. Guidelines will surely help each practitioner in securing new engagements and ensuring some form of consistency across the profession. I don’t expect the organisation to police or certify its members, however, having guidelines posted should help a client know what to expect from an SEO/SEM that is a member of SEMPO.
Okay, but explain how how organization should have standards and how this would "help a client know what to expect" from SEMPO members?

If not all the industry is behind those standards, how is this a good thing for a group that is suppose to be "promoting the sem industry"?

It keeps coming back to somehow promoting the members of SEMPO. That can't happen with this type of org.

And, how can you have standards, and then "don't expect the organization to police" those standards? You can't have it both ways.

[dshapero]

Bruce Clay has a great code of ethics that could serve as a starting point!

Again, I do not think the organisation should police or certify. That is my view. Other methods of ensuring compliance may include an ebay style forum where praise, as well as, concern could be posted. Just a suggestion.

Curious, what do you think the role of SEMPO should be?

[ihelpyou]

Oh okay, I understand what you are saying.

Oh yes, I will be posting a list of big changes for SEMPO in a new thread real soon. :)

But I don't agree with your ethics comment, as this will refer to:

http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?p=9139#post9139

[dshapero]

I think we may have a different understanding of ethics and professionalism.

[ihelpyou]

Probably not. SEO's should not be hoarding PageRank at the expense of clients, and doing so to benefit their own websites, so they can stay ranked on the search engines.

I call that spam.

[dshapero]

Let me try to clarify my views of standards:

I'm not suggesting rules and regulations that dictate what an SEO can do or can't do as much as a standard of business conduct whereby an SEO would not engage in activity if it was construed as discreditable to the profession (e.g. do not misrepresent your experience, overstate expected results, define what work is to be performed and by who).

Take a look at Bruce Clay's guidelines before you respond again and let me know if you agree or disagree with the standards he holds himself to.

Also, please share your views on what you think SEMPO should be doing.

[bragadocchio]

Take a look at Bruce Clay's guidelines before you respond again and let me know if you agree or disagree with the standards he holds himself to.

Honestly, they confirm my belief that an SEO or SEM shouldn't write their own code of ethics. :(

That Code repeats a mistake that the legal profession made in their early attempts at codes of ethics. Those were often aspirational, the way that Bruce Clay's are. Try as you might, it was hard to live up to those codes. Especially when it was hard to use them to define what was an ethical approach and what wasn't.

For instance, what is the SEM to do if one search engine says a practice is fine, and another one says it isn't? What makes a search engine the moral touchstone of the industry? Aren't many of their decisions based in business concerns and compromises aimed at pleasing all of their stakeholders?

What if the law of one country says a certain method is permissible, and the laws of another country says it isn't. The differences in approaches between the US and the EU regarding data that can be collected sees a very large number of American sites violating some of the EU data protection laws. (A couple of years ago, I heard a legitimate source note that the number of US sites conforming to the EU data protection laws numbered around 65.)

In place of those Codes of Ethics, a set of Rules of Ethics came into place which better defined certain baseline activity, and requirements. For instance, they defined the type of behavior that was appropriate between a practitioner and a client - such as requirements to communicate certain types of information, what to do when you represented more than one person in the same case and a potential conflict of interested existed, and many others The rules were much easier to follow, and people did.

If this type of thing really excites you, and you want to read more, here's a paper that explains the difference between a "code of ethics" and "rules of ethics" possibly as clearly as it can be explained:

The Story of a Rule (http://www.law.msu.edu/lawrev/2000-4/1-aultman.pdf)

I wouldn't hire a plumber to tell me what pagerank meant, and how to best optimize a set of pages for more than one search engine. (Unless that plumber moonlighted as a very successful SEO.) I likewise would be more prone to consult with a number of professionals from business and academia to come up with a set of rules of ethics.

Though I think I agree with Doug and Alan that a group which would promote the industry rather than specific companies probably shouldn't also play police officer for their industry.

[andrewgoodman]

I joined at the lowest membership level (for $299) and I knew that it was not just about the economic support to get a link and a few discounts in return. I was seeking a road where a formal organization could help me educate about these markets. Could SEMPO help me? I gave it a shot.

I approached both Barbara Coll, our president, and Dana Todd, Education Committee Chair, about my interests and goals. They responded immediately to my request and suggested writing a white paper on "Search Engine Marketing to the U.S. Hispanic Market (http://www.sempo.org/research/USHispanic.pdf)" to start and they would do everything they could to promote it to all members and other marketers looking for resources at SEMPO. So I did and submitted it to them. In less than 24 hours I received notice that it was already posted on the site. Not only was it under the research section, but they also featured it at the very top of the homepage. Then, they sent a newsletter to all members on 5/20/2004 with the following:


The communication with SEMPO has been great for me and I see outstanding support from the organization to continue helping me reach my own goals.

Your enthusiasm is to be commended, of course, Nacho.

But from reading your whole post, it sounds like you're happy with SEMPO because they posted your white paper and paid attention to you. Should these be our criteria for evaluation?

If you look at the resources posted on the site, that becomes another question mark. How was this approached with a view to balance and fairness? (Example:)

http://www.sempo.org/articles/adwords.php

Compare and contrast the efforts of one person -- Danny -- in his monthly newsletter. Not only are there always various new articles, but there are usually links to dozens of SEM resources and news items so that no one is left out.

Again, if it makes you happy because *your* stuff got posted, that's cool with me. But looking down the articles and case studies lists, we see what amounts to a small selection of fairly randomly chosen articles and cases (all the cases, BTW, are just advertisements for particular SEM firms).

That means a few of SEMPO's members get noticed... but most don't. And more to the point, there is now an editorial quality function being performed. If the editorial content seems haphazard, now the person doing the job of putting it up there has to be accountable. Anyone can link to stuff... this is the web. But is this the best stuff? Is it a comprehensive directory of resources? Or just "great" stuff? What kind of stuff is it, exactly?

I know this much: when I post a blog on my site, talking about something I think is cool, people can take that for what it's worth: my opinion. But when you start messing around with a formal organization, even your content strategy is something that needs to be mapped out a bit. Again, this is something that is not easy to see coming in advance, and maybe a better job could be done in the future. But it is why I am increasingly careful to try not to speak for anyone but myself. Blogging is fairly transparent that way. Folks know it's "me."

So one of the SEMPO-featured expert articles (on the topic of Google AdWords) is from this SEO firm: http://www.searchengine-optimization-guru.com/ .

Frankly, I've never heard of him. If I'm sitting here thinking about the communications strategy of SEMPO, and what types of expertise are being promoted and ignored, to me, posting articles on paid search written by complete unknowns would seem to be a type of editorial content in itself.

Here might be a rule of thumb that would make sense to anyone who wasn't tightly involved with our community: approach anyone in the industry who has authored a book with a name publisher (eg. Seda, Thurow, Sherman/Price, Calishain) and mention their resources.

Don't just start picking SEM firms at random and linking to their material.

Again Nacho, I respect the enthusiasm, and completely agree that the Hispanic SEM market is huge and needs more attention. But the broader point is that this is supposed to be a professional association. If Oneupweb gets two case studies published on the site, then maybe that's only because the rest of the membership were too lazy to send stuff in. However, I'm not sure that this is fair. Surely there should be some effort made to solicit materials more formally, or some strategy around it. I've seen too much research in my day to naively believe that "research is good so we should make it available." What research by whom?

On the whole, by not mapping this out and not seeing the huge potential for bias in advance, these mistakes were made. It's because of that potential that I always felt the task was too daunting and worrisome for me to get personally involved, I guess. I wouldn't want to be accused of playing favorites or picking winners unless that was obviously just editorializing that did not speak for anyone else. Whether it likes it or not, SEMPO proposes to speak for all of us and that entails a greater responsibility than I suspect was envisioned.

White papers alone won't make SEMPO special. Right now, MarketingSherpa, Page Zero Media, and a few dozen other shops are working on White Papers on SEM-related topics. Believe it or not, many of these firms also have the resources to hire researchers. Some of them are really good.

Thus far, even though they're a private for-profit entity, Sherpa's editorial standards and careful planning to avoid bias in reporting have far outstripped SEMPO's efforts in that area. When you're in the business of picking winners and favorites, institutional design, journalistic standards, and careful planning are a must.

I realize I am expecting a lot. I was just remarking to Mike G. on the exhibit floor at SES that these kinds of organizations are usually subject to the same pressures. Few rise to the challenge of setting things up so a particular coalition of members don't dominate. For example, I always felt that one of Canada's large Internet marketing associations had a bias towards email marketing. Even when the moderators of the industry discussion list were very good (and they were), they were nonetheless subject to seeing things through email-colored glasses because they ran email marketing firms. And whenever I saw certain vendors volunteering their services (eg. GotMarketing to send out the email, etc.), as an ordinary member I started wondering if there was some kind of inner circle. (As an aside, the current moderator of that list wouldn't let me post a heads-up back in April about SES Toronto, even though the former moderator encouraged me to do so, and even though it's one of the most exciting Internet marketing events to hit Toronto ever. That was an attempt to avoid bias, I think, but enforced by someone who runs an email marketing firm.)

So basically, SEMPO faces those types of concerns. When business is being transacted through the organization, and when a lot of little image things make ordinary or prospective members wonder if they're going to lose business to members with more favored status, the rank and file will continue to treat the thing with suspicion, and their participation may be largely defensive ("better keep an eye on them"). I don't say this with an accusatory tone, merely as someone who has a fair bit of experience in politics, nonprofits, etc., and who has studied the workings of regulatory and nonprofit agencies. Unless these problems are anticipated and minimized at the outset they can get out of hand. Good intentions are wondeful, but this industry is getting big, and is now moving into adulthood. I mean you can't even talk to Playboy anymore without everyone making a big stink about it.

[polarmate]

So one of the SEMPO-featured expert articles (on the topic of Google AdWords) is from this SEO firm: http://www.searchengine-optimization-guru.com/ .

Frankly, I've never heard of him.
You obviously missed this article:
http://www.webpronews.com/ebusiness/seo/wpn-4-20040416FileNameDomainNameMethodologiesTheirRolean dImportanceinTopSearchEngineRankings.html
and the uproar that followed here:
http://www.highrankings.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5538

[Marcia]

Re "breathing room" here are only a few public comments made over a year ago

http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum5/2845.htm

A few of the current issues are nothing new; they were voiced way back when.