Do I Have A Conflict With Two Clients In The Same Industry?

[Relevancy]

Ok, what do I do if I have a potential new client that is in a similar industry as an existing client of mine? They might be going after some of the same keywords. Is there a way to legally and safely take on both clients? The new client will be a higher paying client and I will be able to secure them in a long term contract. I don’t want to have to drop the old client. Can this be done?

[SEOchica]

I think it can be done... there is different content on both sites, the clients are willing to pay for different things, like directory listings... if your old client isn't willing to pay for links and your new one is, that's going to give them an advantage too.

Does that make sense?

[Robert_Charlton]

Relevancy - I've stayed away from conflict areas like this. I know there are companies that specialize in certain market areas, and I've never understood how they could ethically and effectively do it. The tendency with sites in similar areas is to take the easy route and to borrow and overlap from one site to the other, and that, I feel, is where the conflict is.

What do you do with your knowledge of niche searches, gained in the service of one client? Do you wipe your mind clean when targeting for the others?

Similarly, how do you handle inbound link sources? In my opinion, establishing common linking patterns for a group of sites could hurt them. If you keep the sources separate, who gets the best links?

One of the hardest things to do, I've discovered, is to write multiple pages of optimized copy targeting the same service and not repeat wording.

It also gets dull if you're working in one area with several sites. For me, it's both easier and more fun not to overlap. I can understand how others may view the matter differently.

[JohnMaggio]

Its all going to depend on if the old client thinks its a conflict of not.

If you have done research for a certain industy (say shoe sales) then you have gained knowledge and it is now your knowledge and should be used as a resouce of yours.

Your going to have to weight the options. Will the new client pay more or commit to a more profitable contract then the old client. How badly will it hurt you to loose the old client.

IMO its not a question of morality, but more of a question of 'whats better for you!'

[ChadLedford]

Your going to have to weight the options. Will the new client pay more or commit to a more profitable contract then the old client. How badly will it hurt you to loose the old client.

IMO its not a question of morality, but more of a question of 'whats better for you!'

I cannot agree with this. I believe that you owe your previous clients a certain amount of loyalty and respect regardless of profit. I agree that you know the industry now because of your experience with your previous client, but that knowledge should be used to better your previous client regardless if the keywords are the same or not. If you had a client in the "shoe" industry and the new client wants you to work for him in this same industry, there is almost no way to prevent yourself from competing with your previous client. If you were to outsource the new client to someone else, well that starts to get into the grey area because you are not technically competing against your own client for market share.

[Marcia]

One of the hardest things to do, I've discovered, is to write multiple pages of optimized copy targeting the same service and not repeat wording. Robert, that's assuming that the client is paying for content development.

Non-compete clauses are part of some SEO contracts, and the clients pay a substantial dollar amount to get that kind of a clause included, since it limits the ability to take on other clients.

A few pertinent points:

>Was there a promise or implication that the services would be provided on an exclusive basis?
>Was it a one time set-up charge with maintenance with the previous client?
>Are you on a contract for an extended period of service, or is it month-to-month?
>What type of arrangements would be made with the new client if you took them on?

[SEOchica]

The other part to take into consideration with content development is that there are going be features that vary from client to client.

For my own sanity, I probably wouldn't take on more than 2 or 3 clients that do the same thing, but I really don't see issue with having more than 1 client.

Like I said before, we can make all the recommendations we want, but utimately it's up to the client to approve those costs.

[sportsguy]

Well, this comes down to what the clients think and what you think, IMO.

I try to follow the rule if you have to ask if it's OK to do something, chances are it isn't...

I personally would not overlap clients. I would, though, re-evaluate my current clients if a long-term, more lucrative opportunity presented itself. I'm loyal, don't get me wrong, but my own wallet's pretty high on that list...

[vayapues]

If you have done research for a certain industry (say shoe sales) then you have gained knowledge and it is now your knowledge and should be used as a resource of yours.

This is an important point. In the world of SEM, we work with our minds. This is our trade, or our skill. This is how we make our living. IMHO I don't think you should feel obligated ethically to keep that skill for only one client, if you now have the opportunity to increase your earnings with another client.

I also agree with Macia who pointed out contractual issues. If it is not prohibited in your contract with the first client, than you are good to go.

That said, for me, it would be very tough to do a good job for two clients in the same industry. How do you manage both, and insure that both get the maximum benefit. Not un-do-able, just more difficult.

[Chris Boggs]

My personal feeling on this is that I would work with a same-industry client for PPC but not SEO. That is something we promise to all of our SEO clients. In my opinion, if you are reusing research/analysis, you should charge accordingly (a lot less).

[KPickenJr]

IMHO, it doesn't matter - Unless you have promised that you won't optimise sites in the same industry of course.

If you do go ahead with it then I wouldn't broad cast it, but I wouldn't hide the fact either. If you are asked whether you optimise clients opposition or not then I feel a reasonable answer is "client confidentiality" - Can't discuss other customers tactics. If they are asking for proof that you can do the job then show them a non-competing site.

I honestly don't see the problem as long as you are not biased - as we all know - so many factors effect progress in SEO, in this situation, the most important factor being the state the site was in before you started work in it, and budget :)


KP

[andrewgoodman]

I talked to a colleague who said it's absolutely a black and white area where there should be no doubt and no gray whatsoever: you absolutely cannot work for two clients in the same industry.

Of course, his company's business model is to have ten to fifteen good-sized clients and to offer them full marketing and web development services, including development, analytics, search marketing, email development & marketing, custom ecommerce, and hosting. Each client might spend on average $100k per year, and they don't intend to grow beyond that number of clients.

Isn't it interesting the way we can construct morality such that it describes us as doing the right thing, and the other guy as wrong?

I demand a law against sugary snacks. And I sell only health foods. ;)

I think you need to be careful in this area, keep your bargains, and make your clients happy. But I don't believe that working for more than one client in the same general industry automatically makes you into Jack Abramoff. :)

[Marcia]

Each client might spend on average $100k per year, and they don't intend to grow beyond that number of clients.That's paying enough out to warrant exclusivity, especially multiplied by 10 clients. But other people's clients might be paying a small fraction of that. Things might look quite different with a modest dollar amount.

[Joseph Morin]

I wont take on 2 clients in the same industry period.

Its like competing against yourself.

[fathom]

I talked to a colleague who said it's absolutely a black and white area where there should be no doubt and no gray whatsoever: you absolutely cannot work for two clients in the same industry.

That's absolute BS!

I find it completely ridiculous that 100's, even 1000's of SEOs can aggregrate here, share ideas, collaborate, partner, share expenses & resources, etc. and then be so shortsighted not to envision how client's can compete at a higher level by doing the same.

The best thing about "competing interests" [in clients] it keeps you [as a SEO] an honest broker. The fact that any client must compete "regardless" means that when they have an invested interest in the websites they are competing against - the additional revenue brought in via those competing interests can go into "shared interests"... like a third party message board, news source, blog, etc. with their own AdSense ad there [reducing PPC costs] or better yet their own ads that cost nothing.

Collaborative interests will beat a singular interest everytime!

[Chris_D]

Relationships are very important in business, and so are expectations. Both need to be managed.

We discuss the whole issue of competitive clients up front. Generally, our rule is that we won't work for competing clients at the same time in the same markets. Generally, if a project extends over 6 months, we grant exclusivity during the period we are working with a client, to that client. Once the contract has expired - we are free to work with any other players in that industry.

Under 6 months - we generally make it clear there is no exclusivity - however - we haven't yet actually worked with a competitor - but that's been our choice - not a contractural limitation.

In employment contracts, for example, an employer can pay you to not work for them - and not to work for their competitor. Exclusivity takes you out of the market.

Exclusivity costs someone - either you ('opportunity cost'), or your client (money). Sometimes you give it freely due to the relationship - but there is still an 'opportunity cost' to you.

My advice? Do some research on the 'new' client - product, geography, customer demographics etc. Then talk to the existing client. There may actually be no conflict at all. Sure - all real estate agents sell real estate - but often geography means that two real estate agents aren't actually competitiors at all......

[Mikkel deMib Svendsen]

Offcourse you can take more than one client in the same market! It all depends on what you told your clients, what you put in your contracts based on the kind of work your are providing. To me, honesty is the key here. As long as you are honest with your clients I see absolutely no problem. If clients don't like it they are free to chose another SEO.

In a sense, I am probably more "lucky" than most SEOs in the fact that I can pick and chose what projects I want. In general, I get far more requests for proposals than I can handle and as such I really don't care if a few companies decide not to work with me :)

I have only done very few exclusive deals in my time and it has usually been because of the type of work I provide. If a client want me to be a key-strategist for their online activities I don't feel I can supply that same service to to competing companies, but if I am "just" mannaging a PPC campaign, giving expert advice on how the remove indexing barriers, build link-campaigns, launch viral projects or help with general site optimization I don't see any problems in serving multiple clients in the same market.

If you are working in small markets, like I do (being in Denmark) there is simply not enough qualified SEOs to serve large companies in important industries such as travel and finance. There are more companies here that needs qualified help than what is available.

So, whenever a client ask me about exclusivity I look at it this way: How much additional income is that going to limit me from having? If its too much I just turn down the request, if its not too much I will give the client an offer for my services that includes a reimburshment for the lost oppotunity.

In any case, I would not even start discusing exclusivity on small projects - it's only an option with me on very large and ongoing commitments.

[PhilC]

fathom. Your comments are fine, but you are looking at it from a completely different perspective to everyone else, because you've made it a business model to bring small, part-time, online businesses (gift baskets) together into a sort of grouping for mutual promotion. It's not the same thing as what is being asked about, and discussed.

[Marcia]

So, whenever a client ask me about exclusivity I look at it this way: How much additional income is that going to limit me from having? If its too much I just turn down the request, if its not too much I will give the client an offer for my services that includes a reimburshment for the lost oppotunity.So then, that means that the client has to end up paying a price for the privilege of exclusivity.

In any case, I would not even start discusing exclusivity on small projects - it's only an option with me on very large and ongoing commitments.Also, there are some SEOs who are quite capable but new who don't have the reputation to command big fees, and also some who specialize in small businesses (some family owned) that can only afford to pay modest fees.

Sorry, but there is NOT just one "industry." Those who deal with large corporate accounts or deep pocket clients are not in the same industry sector as the small guy - and generally have NO comprehension that there's a big difference between the two, which is often evidenced by their comments and opinions.

It's completely unrealistic and unreasonable to expect people who deal with small business and modest fees to function like the big guys who can and do charge a lot.

IMHO that post of Mikkel's says it all.

[ChipJohns]

Does society program things like this into us? Why are there different standards for different industries. If you fail to show up for you doctors appt they charge you a $40 noshow fee. Yet if our mechanic tried that we'
d laugh in his face.

Scenario, please bare with me:

You have a client that lives in your small town who has a helicopter and small business. You seo his Web site for him and he does well. Another person in your small town decides to buy a helicpoter and start a business and wants you to seo his Web site too. You say No! conflict of interest.

Two months later,you have an opportunity to photograph a special event taking place and if you have exclusive photos of the event you will make a lot of money. If anyone else has photos of the event you will make considerable less money.

The photos require a helicopter to gain access to the photo site. you explain to the helicopter business owner of the exclusive issue.

There are going to be many other photographers that are going to want to gain access to the phot site. However, the only pilot that can make it to the site is the same pilot that took you! Is he going to be exclusive to you? Should you pay him more to be exclusive? Does he automatically owe you this inclusive service? If he decides to take others to the spot, does this now give you the ok to provide seo for the other helicopter service in town.

Is this a dilema? No. A contract will make everything clear. Either all parties will agree or disagree.

--
We may try to make this an ethical issue, but indeed it isn't. If we decide that inclusiveness is best, fine. But if two other parties agree to no inclusiveness and enter into a contract as such, how is this unethical? It isn't. They are two parties able to understand the ramifications and live with them. Heck, the Bible even provides for a difference in certain values..

[Marcia]

The new client will be a higher paying client and I will be able to secure them in a long term contract. Unless you had initially discussed it with the first client and agreed to give them an exclusive, there really isn't any reason not to take the new one on. Particularly if the older client isn't on a long term contract, you'd be foolish to turn the new one down. Unless maybe it's a $100K a year long term client, then you may want to think twice.

I don’t want to have to drop the old client. Can this be done?It can be done legally, there is nothing legal or illegal about that kind of decision; unless you have a contract with the first client for exclusivity - then you'd be in breach of contract. You don't have to give up the previous client, and if he/she hasn't asked so far if you work with others in the similar or same industry, chances are they won't think of asking now or in future.

No two sites are alike and probably don't have the same ranking capability with all the variables involved.

[Wilksy]

Totally agree with Mikkel and Marcia, also fathom re: colaborative interests. It all depends on your market and how easily clients can attain decent seo knowledge in your area.

I think of it as industry research. Every site has a different structure, goal, content and revenue base, provided they are not basically clones I see nothing wrong with taking on clients in the same industry.

To me it's all down to disclosure and honesty. That said I have clients I would never announce due to the fact they pay the top dollar, my other (smaller) clients know they exist - just not exactly who they are.

I call it 'consulting below the radar' and they get the best info and find out what other's may be doing in the industry. My other clients know this as well and they are all very happy with the piece of the pie they get (read:deserve). My loyalty lies with whoever has the biggest budget, deserves the rank (content) and want's it the most (better to work with).

Every site has it's place on the web. Budget (mostly due to size) usually dictates where they should be.

[sunnymi]

since you are providing SEO or SEM service to your clients, you can not avoid to serve more than one client in the same industry. And your experience in this industry is what the second or third client is looking for. So you reject it or take it?

Just think about an employee with many years experience in his field, can he/she accept a new offer from the competitors of his company? No matter it's because of the higher salary or more challenging opportunity or other attraction. Surely he/she can take the new offer. The bottom line is that he/she should not betray the previous employer while contributing to the new one.

For your clients, each should have his own unique competitive edge although they are in the same industry. Which one would the consumers choose depend on lots of factors, not just the ads or placement on search engines. When you dig into the features of each client and implement SEM strategy matching their products or services, there is no much conflict between this one and that one.

[fathom]

I think of it as industry research. Every site has a different structure, goal, content and revenue base, provided they are not basically clones I see nothing wrong with taking on clients in the same industry.

It is particularly useful in "regional" specific industry segments [more towards service-based than product base] and/or country specifics.

In fact, in tourism where the client's customers must come to the product and often there are "seasonal" trends you can have clients that are not competitors simply because they work in each others off-season.

You can segment any industry in a volume of different ways - thus exclusivity on search queries isn't cut and dry... and the issue is never who will be #1, #2, etc. [a SEO really doesn't have that much control over it]... the issue is relationship leverage whether that be with bipartisan website resources or supplementary revenue generators.

The more players - the easier it is [for all] to achieve and maintain and ultimately that is the goal of any client.

[neuron]

Hamburger, hamburger, Pepsi, Pepsi.

Was that a Saturday Night skit or a movie? Was it both?

Let's say I sell Nike shoes. You have a store at 100 Main Street. A shoe store across the street at 101 Main Street also sells Nike Shoes. Do you think I care who sells the most shoes?

Like Mikkel said, my caring will cost you.

There are circumstances where an SEO might take a site on "to rank them as high as possible" which could create a conflict if another site in the same competitive industry wanted you to "to rank them as high as possible".

However, to be suckered into a situation like that stinks of naivite.

There is a code of ethics here. If you contract for a site to rank as high as possible for certain keyterms, then you cannot take on a second site under the same terms as the first without conflict.

However, if you contract to perform a specific service for the first site, regardless of ranking and for a 2nd site under the same terms, then you should be clear of any impropriety.

[St0n3y]

If there is a belief that the SEO must be loyal to the existing customer (a good belief, no doubt) than you simply offer the existing customer a new contract at the much higher rate to compensate for the loss of the new customer. This is assuming of course that there is not current contract that precludes a renegotiation at this point. Point is, give the first customer the opportunity to pay you for exclusivity.

But like others have said, this really isn't a moral issue unless you are trying to deceive either your current or new client. If you don't offer exclusivity then you are not obligated to provide it. If you don't offer it but for some reason some clients expect it then you either need to re-educate them or conform to their wishes should you want to maintain that relationship.

As a business decision, can you work on two clients at the same time and be successful with both. I say absolutely. Unless, of course, you're promising them both #1 positions. Then you can't. But if you're goal is to get them to rank well, improve their ROI and conversions and do the best you can for them, then you surely can do your best for both without there being a conflict.

[sherwood]

I agree with Marcia that contracts with the old and new clients will ultimately determine my actions. Exclusivity is *not* implied when a consultant works with a client - only confidentiality.

Granted, it's a fine line: if I discover a low-competition keyphrase for Client #1, can I use that knowledge going forward? If there's no exclusivity clause with Client #1, yes - I call that "experience in this industry".

But if Client #1 discovers that magic keyphrase? Uh-oh. I really can't use that going forward... and *especially* not concurrently. Cuz that's a confidentiality issue.

Here's another angle that may apply:

Maybe Client #1 and #2 are "in the same industry", but do they truly compete head-to-head? Are they two people shouting across a table - or two people in a rock concert, shouting at opposite ends of a stadium?

Pizza joints in different states - that's an obvious example. But there are also a thousand non-niche online shoe stores. Can any two of them really peg each other as "competitors"? If not, then they're fair game.