I am just starting out with Yahoo Search Optimizer.

Are there any nuances that you have noticed? Is there any functionality that anyone has noticed, that isn't readily apparent?

I did notice that you CAN upload cost data, which is a godsend as far as trying to analyze the campaign ROI. I have not delved into it far enough to see if you can do that for additional campaigns though (You can bring in other campaigns like Google adwords, Miva, looksmart..etc.)

This would help with what we were discussing in this thread:
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?p=73081

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

You can do it for Google, but you have to go into google and create a report that gets sent to the SO nightly.
Make sure all pages of your website have the universal tag and your thank you page has a universal and conversion tag. If it is a shopping site, you will need to add the variables to capture the revenue data into your conversion tag. You will also need to do an import/export of the accoutns keywords to add tracking to your Yahoo account and add tracking parameters manually to your Google account URLs. This will give you the ability to track ROAS on the keyword level from each engine. You can track other engines, but have to add cost data manually.

The creative report summary will give you roas and cpa, the funnel report is awesone because it will show how many leads (clicks), browsers, shoppers, and conversions. You will be able to see better where your customers are leaving your site.
On every page there is a "?" icon that you can click on to get instructions and more info.

I am still plugging away at Yahoo Search Optimizer (YSO).....

I have found a few interesting facts/tips for other newbie’s.

1.) Category names must be the exact same for sites that already have a structure. This means that if you are importing your Google AdWords stats with the nightly email. Then you must use the exact same structure when you create the appended URL structure. Failure to do so, will result in multiple categories being created and some pretty interesting stats.

2.) If you set the YSO account to manage = ON and then set a bid parameter for the auto bidding, then the bids in the Direct Traffic Center will be changed to the last bidded amount through YSO. For instance, if you set your bids to < $0.50 but > $0.10 then run the campaign and decide that it isn't exactly how you want the results to be, then you decide to turn it off. The bids will remain the same, even if you change them manually in the Direct Traffic Center (DTC). Trust me, I spent a large amount of time changing my bids only to find out that they were being overwritten by YSO. To clarify this even further, EVEN IF YOU HAVE “AUTO ACCEPT BIDS” OFF, but the “manage account” is still ON, then your bids will still change to the last auto bidded amount.

3.) It even changes bids that are offline. Be very careful of this, especially if you have bids that are grandfathered in at the $0.05 mark. You may just decide to turn them back on and get bumped up to the $0.10 mark.

4.) If a keyword is ever moved from one category to another, YOU MUST CALL and have them change it manually in YSO. Otherwise, you bids will be reflected and managed under the old account rules. It does not see the changes that you make in the Direct Traffic Center.

5.) Make a backup of the account before you do anything.... Find your bid amounts on a good day or over a specified timeframe and save them, in case you need to revert back to your manual bids. I DID!

The last offering I have thus far is to call your rep directly and have them walk you through it, so you can avoid any of the above mentioned obstacles.
The people there are very knowledgeable about the YSO product as well as the DTC. They are also willing to "go the extra mile" if you need help.

Hope this helps and good luck.

P.S. has anyone achieved Diamond member status yet? If so, was it through an agreement or a spend limit....and what exactly is that limit ;)

If I remember right, Diamond is 50k per month spend.

I thought that was the goal amount originally, but I have talked to some marketers that have spent $54,000 + consistently for a quarter or more and never received the invitation....

I'm wondering if it changed over the years or if the "personal service" was deleted from the equation. Possibly neglect, from the buyout or merely a cost/benefit/profit determination.

Maybe I'm just being optimistic in thinking that someone will open their eyes and see why the market share has been dropping and realize that people like service.

It reminds me of Verisign in the early days....They held the cards, and told you they did. Now they are paying the price... Don't get me wrong, they (Yahoo) are one of the top providers in their arena, but are becoming very borderline for the customer service reason alone. (at least in my industries) It's the difference between maintenance advertising and speculative growth. Nobody wants to get caught in a stagnant program, or worse, one that becomes routinely mediocre. It's not good for either party.

I guess what I am really saying is that a little CS could go a long way in their area. ...now I'm just venting...... I apologize....

Yahoo! Platinum service is an absolute joke... I get much better service from every single other outlet I have ever worked with, even if my spend is only a couple hundred dollars per month rather than the $40K I spend at Yahoo!. The main problem I have is that their editorial team actually takes the initiative to change our ads if I submit changes through the DTC. It blows my mind that they waste the man power (and really aggravate me) by editing my titles and descriptions without even notifying me of any changes. The editors mostly try to incorporate the search terms into the titles and descriptions, meanwhile they often change what our ad is trying to say, repeat the exact same phrase in the title and description and/or they write ads that just flat out make no sense. At Google, submitted ads either pass through editorial or are rejected... end of story. Why can't Yahoo do the same thing? I cannot have some editor who knows nothing about our products and doesn't even proof read changes he makes to our ads to do this to our submissions. Because of this , I am forced to go through a rep with specific instructions for the editor not to change our ads in any way. This was fine when I was at a Diamond level but now that I am at the Platinum level of service, I can never get a hold of the rep working on my account via the phone and email submissions (or any emails that I send) take days and sometimes weeks to get a response. Many times, I get no repsonse at all. So when I go live with new products/new categories or make changes to an existing category, they are live within minutes at Google, but can take weeks and tons of hassle and aggravation to go live at Yahoo. The funny thing is that I don't need any service from these reps at all other than the ability to submit new search terms and make changes to our current listings. But their editorial process is so screwed up that this is virtually impossible for me to do under the current situation. The funny thins is that it used to be the exact opposite in that Yahoo had great service and Google was a nightmare, but not anymore. It shows me why Google is killing Yahoo these days... Google is an efficient well run comapny heading in the right direction while Yahoo is the exact opposite.
</end rant>

Hello - long time lurker, first time poster.

I've had identical problems and issues with YSM. I used to spend $2,000 per day at Yahoo, but now I average about $150! Their editorial "decisions" are more like a random/inconsistent application of the Guidelines. I could not agree more that the editors do a poor job when modifying ad copy, not that they should be in the business of doing that anyway.

I think the best thing YSM can do at this point is FIRE most of the editors and HIRE some real programmers to build a system more like Google. YSM should get out of the business of controlling ad copy. Certainly, there's reason to make sure an ad isn't completely irrelevant, offensive, etc, but beyond that everyone would be better off if the advertisers decide what ads/copy work.

Maybe the ramped up traffic from MSN's new AdCenter PPC system will finally put enough pressure on YSM to make the necessary changes.

A rant about YSM! You can start a post on any subject concerning Y! and within 4 responses it turns into a rant from pissed off customers.

Well back on the Search Optimizer topic. The concept of this tool is excellent, however look closely at the previous posts. How long will it take you to convert all of your campaigns and set up YSO properly? How much confusion and dissruption will this cause for your current marketing efforts?
How much are you paying for YSM! monthly? How much do you use YSM today and will you in the next year with the advent of MSN?

Now ask yourself, will you ever get a return on the investment?
Now ask yourself, cant you achieve about 90% of the same reporting goal using the FREE google analytics? Combine that with a bid management tool and you have YSO.
Do you really want to invest in and implement a complex tool like this from a company who puts forth DTC? They don't change DTC even though their customer base is screaming bloody murder that it doesnt work, or doesnt have the features they need.

(I should note that the team developers of YSO are not directly related to the work of DTC although there is some crossover. These gents are highly qualified, but that doesnt mean that corp Y! wont trash their efforts with poor support of the dev group, pricing models and terrible CS reps for their users).

Bottom line is that YSO may be a decent application but its like implementing an enterprise solution. A huge dissruption and investment in money and time that may only yield a small 1-2% increase in profits. In my view the tool provides its best return for those who make actual sales online. If your sale happens after the fact, such as in sales lead generation where you generate the lead and close the deal later, then the tool is not very effective.

So if you are a large company and you deal in high volume all online sales selling widgets around the world 24/7 and do this mostly on Overture. Then this small increase could be well worth your efforts. Wal-mart, Sears, Target - go for it.

Otherwise, if your like the rest of the online marketing world stick with your current bid management tools with GoogleAnalytics. It's cheap, easy to set up and very effective.

Ah ha, I didnt digress into a rant.. or did I?

Discovery

I would like to see what is going to happen to the SO when Yahoo changes to a Google type format possibly later this year. No more bid to position?