I am on a quest to get the answers to these questions, and I would appreciate the opinions of all of you experienced and knowledgable SEO pros. Thank you in advance for sharing any information.

I know that link popularity helps, but that is about all I know about it.

How can I make link popularity work for me? Should I buy PageRank like I've read about other SEOs doing? How does link text factor in?

Would these types of text links help my rankings?

http://www.gasbuddy.com
http://www.californiagasprices.com

Woudl these links be worth the money?

Where else should I look?

Are free links better than paid links?

Thank you again for your help!!!

I am on a quest to get the answers to these questions, and I would appreciate the opinions of all of you experienced and knowledgable SEO pros. Thank you in advance for sharing any information.

I know that link popularity helps, but that is about all I know about it.

Welcome to the forums, seolearner. First I suggest you read the threads in the Link Building forum, then look for more information about link popularity at Search Engine Watch so you can get a good overall idea of what link popularity is.

How can I make link popularity work for me? Should I buy PageRank like I've read about other SEOs doing? How does link text factor in?

Start off with submissions to directories/business directories/topical directories to build a good basis for your link program. By doing this you will also publicize your website through those website listings. See the thread on one way linking here:
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=22

I can't say I would recommend buying PageRank, but others may have good information about what to do and how to do it.

With link text you want to use your main keywords in the active part of the hyperlink. See the thread on anchor text in this forum regarding link text:
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=773

Would these types of text links help my rankings?

http://www.gasbuddy.com
http://www.californiagasprices.com

Woudl these links be worth the money?

Most importantly, the links should be on topic, in other words, related to your own website and its topic. If it is one about gas or california gas prices, then yes, it would be appropriate. Depends on what type of links they are you would be purchasing. Are you talking about Google AdWords that show on those websites, in other words contextual ad placement? Or purchasing a text ad to show on the website that links to your website?

Where else should I look?

Members, please feel free to join in and add resources and information to this thread.

Are free links better than paid links?

Not necessarily. It depends on your website topic and what you want to get from the link coming back to you. Remember that any link with information about your website is publicity for prospective visitors.

Link building is complex. Take some time to understand more about it, then strike out and begin your link work.

>Are you talking about Google AdWords that show on those websites, in other words contextual ad placement? Or purchasing a text ad to show on the website that links to your website?

I have the impression he is talking about the Yahoo "ads" top right. I didn't notice them at first either, they look so similar to the [I think] Geocities ads.

I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer but...I see keyword stuffed anchor text going to keyword stuffed file names with keyword stuffed page content. But its Yahoo so I must be wrong.

I have the impression he is talking about the Yahoo "ads" top right. I didn't notice them at first either, they look so similar to the [I think] Geocities ads.

I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer but...I see keyword stuffed anchor text going to keyword stuffed file names with keyword stuffed page content. But its Yahoo so I must be wrong.

Yep, I see the ads now, looks like you're right about the keyword stuffing. Took a quick look at the pages the links go to, in Google there are lots of backlinks on those link sites, and all I see is Yahoo in the backlinks. Interesting.

I read in another forum that buying links is against the search engines' TOS.

If Yahoo is buying links, does that mean it is okay for me to do it?

>If Yahoo is buying links, does that mean it is okay for me to do it?

In my eyes no, all it means is that Yahoo may have crossed the line. I feel there has been an unwritten rule between the search engines and the huge, mega, massive, everykeywordintheuniverse sites. It looks to me that Yahoo are actively breaking that rule.

My advice would be to stay out of it, if a company like Yahoo want to push at the boundries of what is acceptable let them do it. If they do get nuked then for sure you will, if they don't then maybe what's good for the Goose is good for the Gander?

I read in another forum that buying links is against the search engines' TOS.

If Yahoo is buying links, does that mean it is okay for me to do it?

1.) you do not want to gauge what you are doing based on what a large internet powerhouse can do or get away with.

2.) the world has tons of ads in it. if you are buying expressly to manipulate search results they may not like it, but it is not a crime to buy ads.

> if you are buying expressly to manipulate search results they may not like it, but it is not a crime to buy ads.

I agree 169%

Having said that if Yahoo are buying links in an attempt to manipulate Google, I think we may have a *huge* story here.

Don't you?

> if you are buying expressly to manipulate search results they may not like it, but it is not a crime to buy ads.

I agree 169%

Having said that if Yahoo are buying links in an attempt to manipulate Google, I think we may have a *huge* story here.

Don't you?

I saw that a while ago. I do not think that they are just trying to manipulate Google, but also their own results too. that perhaps may even be a bigger story when you consider the concept of editorial relevance???

> I do not think that they are just trying to manipulate Google, but also their own results too

With respect you are crazy.

Let me get this straight, you are suggesting that Yahoo are buying keyword loaded text ads on third party sites in an attempt to manipulate their own [as well as Google's] results?

> I do not think that they are just trying to manipulate Google, but also their own results too

With respect you are crazy.

Let me get this straight, you are suggesting that Yahoo are buying keyword loaded text ads on third party sites in an attempt to manipulate their own [as well as Google's] results?

I am sure that makes me sound crazy (now that I evaluate the statement a bit more) but in some weird way yes. Primarily google but their own results as a benefit too :)

I was wondering about this. There aren't any tracking urls so where on Yahoo do they list information on how to join an advertisement program like this? Sign me up! Seems like it might be a better alternative than Adsense since you are just getting paid to list the links for a month, six months, a year? Who cares who clicks the ads, you just get paid for displaying text ads.

The guys who run those gas guide sites must be making a bundle off of Yahoo.

I did a search on some of the Yahoo text with "omitted results included" and i get between 50,000 to 80,000 results. Google seems to be eating them all up.


http://www.google.com/search?q=%22For+Researching+or+Buying+Cars%22+%22F ind+Used+Cars+or+New+Cars%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0

I can't find anything similar other than the car-related text links. Anyone see it for other categories?

Yahoo says this on their site:

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/ysearch/basics/basics-18.html

What Yahoo! Considers Unwanted
Some, but not all, examples of the more common types of pages that Yahoo! does not want include:


Pages that have substantially the same content as other pages
Pages in great quantity, automatically generated or of little value
Pages using methods to artificially inflate search engine ranking
Excessively cross-linking sites to inflate a site's apparent popularity
Multiple sites offering the same content


Why does Yahoo tell people not to do this yet they are offering some sort of advertisement program that allows people running these types of sites to list their ads? I thought their goal was to eliminate these types of sites altogether not support them financially. Something is out of place?

Why does Yahoo tell people not to do this yet they are offering some sort of advertisement program that allows people running these types of sites to list their ads? I thought their goal was to eliminate these types of sites altogether not support them financially. Something is out of place?

The Goal of Yahoo! is to improve search quality. if selling ads on some of their pages works well I am sure they do not care.

Like with Overture in this instance Yahoo! is likely getting good support from the middle man.

when people create duplicate affiliate sites and they end up in search results search quality decreases and Yahoo! does not make any money out of the deal.

The guys who run those gas guide sites must be making a bundle off of Yahoo.

I did a search on some of the Yahoo text with "omitted results included" and i get between 50,000 to 80,000 results. Google seems to be eating them all up.

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22For+Researching+or+Buying+Cars%22+%22F ind+Used+Cars+or+New+Cars%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0


I find it interesting that many of those pages also have Google Ads listed on them as well:
http://www.milwaukeegasprices.com/suggest_area.asp

I'm not sure, but I think this is where the Yahoo car links originate from. Got there from clicking the "Yahoo Autos" banner link in the ads. They have an affiliate program available:

Yahoo autos center
http://autos.yahoo.com/

Affiliate program:
http://autos.yahoo.com/affiliate/overview.html

Affiliate program FAQ:
http://autos.yahoo.com/affiliate/faq1.html

The Goal of Yahoo! is to improve search quality. if selling ads on some of their pages works well I am sure they do not care.

No argument there. So in order for Yahoo to improve their own search quality AND to improve their own pages showing up in their results and in Google's results, they need to buy text ads on large interlinked site networks. Makes sense.

I'm not sure, but I think this is where the Yahoo car links originate from. Got there from clicking the "Yahoo Autos" banner link in the ads. They have an affiliate program available:

But their affiliate program appears to go through Commission Junction. If I'm not mistaken CJ, has special redirects for their links no? I don't see that on these banners.

I agree with you mtnviewmayhem, if these were affiliate links, they would have some sort of tracking code appended to the URLs.

Did anyone else notice the text link advertisements at the bottom left of all of the sites? Yahoo has more links down there, and it is the same hard-coded links. There are also links to other sites. I guess they bought text links too.

Why would Yahoo buy links on this site? For PR? Why not just link to themselves from their homepage? Don't they have a PR10?

Why would Yahoo buy links on this site? For PR? Why not just link to themselves from their homepage? Don't they have a PR10?

1.) real estate on their home page is too valuable to be cluttered up with random links that they could just rent for a few thousand a month
2.) if they start using their own site to do what appears as manipulation of their own search results they can just about bank on tons and tons of negative press. Google is already synonymous with search. Yahoo! can't really afford for the NYT to write an article about how they edit their results and use the power of some of their own pages to manipulate a bunch of their commercial search terms.

1.) if they start using their own site to do what appears as manipulation of their own search results they can just about bank on tons and tons of negative press.

But paying to be on someone else's site for the manipulation of their own search results and on Google's can generate a lot of positive press.

But paying to be on someone else's site for the manipulation of their own search results and on Google's can generate a lot of positive press.

nope, but then it is at least not so overtly obvious to the casual observer.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently.

Fundamentally I think it has the strength to effect the entire www and more importantly effect the "average" webmaster.

It seems clear to me that Yahoo are persuing an aggressive SEO campaign, currently it seems to be focused on the auto related keywords. In doing that I honestly feel they have broken the "unwritten" rule of the www and imho should be put back in their place.

Lets be honest, most people accept that today search = Google and it ain't no great secret how it works. If say apple.com or adobe.com decided to get into the <cough>male member enlargement</cough> game they could do so easily, just a link from the home page and they would be good to go.

That isn't how it is supposed to be.

Sites of the stature of Yahoo [as an example] are "trusted" and quite rightly are held to higher standards than us back bedroom boys. Once that trust breaks down I struggle to see where search goes from there.

Trusted sites are a fundamental part of today's search landscape, you only have to have had a quick read of the infamous Inktomi spam database to realise that [on that subject there seems to be an awful lot of people claiming to have discovered that at SES this past week, trust me the guy who did wasn't one of those saying he did]. It must be hard to index the web when you can't trust anybody.

From the webmasters point of view I think it presents the greatest threat we have ever faced. If we look at PR as 800llb Gorillas I sit in my back bedroom with a certain amount of bravado. I will easily take on 5 Gorillas, 6 Gorillas too, 7 Gorillas at a push. Put 8 x 800llb Gorillas on me and to be honest I'm struggling.

Put 10 x 800llb Gorillas [Yahoo] in my marketplace and I will get ripped to shreds, they have the ability to own every keyword they desire.

In short........Yahoo needs to be stopped, anyone here want to man the parapets with me?

anyone here want to man the parapets with me?

perhaps also you may want to bring this issue to the attention of Daniel Brandt of http://www.yahoo-watch.org/
(also known as Everyman (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/member.php?find=lastposter&t=44))

he is really good at getting press coverage from sites like The Register.

I understand that Yahoo/Overture was looking to hire a full-time SEO on staff a while back. Not surprised to hear what you are mentioning about their SEO campaign, NFFC.

Wow! The links have been dropped. I wonder why that happened ;)

Makes me even more suspicious...

"The links have been dropped"

Ok, and here I was thinking I was insane as I was reading and trying to understand what links you guys were referring to.

"Sites of the stature of Yahoo [as an example] are "trusted" and quite rightly are held to higher standards than us back bedroom boys."

Totally agree. I read this whole thread with interest. While Yahoo may have the ability, it doesn't mean they should. Crossing that line is a serious issue. And it's one they should think heavily on, because there is heavy damage to be had there. The SE's rely on their "reputations" with the surfing public for market share. Any damage to their reputation for being an "honest, upstanding and impartial" engine (light tone of sarcasm) is not something they'll easily bounce back from.