We started a business which advertises on the Web. We work with one Company to try and improve our Pay Per Click situation and "Natural" search result listings. Another SEO company is agressively trying to get our business and promises all sorts of things. I need help to determine if these outfits are "for real".

Is there an objective Consumer Digest type of site which rates SEO companies? How can I found out other people's experiences with these companies?

Top SEOs and Seo Pros are good places to start. You can also look at the SEMPO (www.sempo.org) and the DFWSEM (www.dfwsem.org) sites for listings of firms.

No matter who you hire, always ask for references (and check them) and other information you would normally check before hiring a company, whether it's an SEO firm or not.

Personally, I have a list of folks I recommend and vouch for. They're all people I've met and had interactions with on multiple occassions. I've always been a bit overwhelmed by some of the bigger lists, though they are a good resource.

My personal list is http://www.seomoz.org/blogdetail.php?ID=349

References, ask for those references! Someone once suggested advice I thought was great. Ask for three references. Then ask for another three references, as everyone always has three put in their pocket for a great review. And don't just ask but talk to people. And if you get a slimy, uncomfortable feeling? Trust your instincts, because they are often right.

Stuntdubl did a nice top ten list of things to ask over here:
http://www.stuntdubl.com/2005/03/24/top-10-things-to-ask-your-seo-company/

I think the Marketingsherpa guide is an excellent starting place, and Chris Sherman recently did reviews of the SEO and the PPC guides here:
http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/article.php/3520186
http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/article.php/3521376

For our Search Engine Watch members (http://searchenginewatch.com/benefits/article.php), we also have an entire SEM: Outsourcing (http://www.smart-keywords.com) category that recaps stories on the topic from SEW and around the web going back literally to 2000.

I have the same issue for my site: http://www.viethoteltravel.com. I would like to hire companies to do SEO. But it is difficult to find one in Vietnam, a developing country where IT people go abroad to work for foreign companies.
It is hard for me to find the reliable SEO overseas. When I search SEO in google, there are thousands of results.
I have read all suggestions, howerver, where to start?

A few other listings of SEO firms can be found at seoconsultants.com and recently Marketing Profs has put together a list.

The main thing is references, and I agree with Danny that more than three is appropriate. Also, there's something to be said for companies that have to cold call or send unsolicited emails to drum up business compared to gaining new clients through industry visibility, referrals and great rankings.

A good place to start is to establish your site objectives and criteria for vendor selection. Visit the resources mentioned in this thread with a standard set of questions to ask each SEO vendor.

Here's a short guide (http://www.allbusiness.com/blog/SearchEngineSmarts/3968/003270.html) listing 7 different SEO firm listing resources and more tips on selecting a SEO company.

Personally, I have a list of folks I recommend and vouch for.
One day, if I study hard enough, maybe I'll appear on a list like that. ;)

I'm still a major fan of www.SEOconsultants.com as well as www.SEOpros.org and of www.topseos.com too. SEOconsultants in particular always seem to work hard to ensure quality to their own standards. I've never been a fan of any 'guide' that is really just another vessel for paid advertising though. Those that charge for inclusion, which notably includes SEMPO, are always biased, and not helping the industry or consumer at large as much as attempting to help their own coffers.

There was a long thread at seo chat where the providers of SEO argued against providing references primarily because of the confidentiality of methods used to obtain high rankings.

Through most other endeavors I've been a big believer in references. What do you say to the issue of confidentiality?

I'd add one thing to the list of top ten things to ask of a potential provider; show me what you have done recently. With SE's adjusting algo's methods that worked in the past may not currently carry weight.

Dave

You can start with: http://www.topseos.com/ and http://www.seopros.org/

Then there is the Marketing Sherpa Guide: http://sherpastore.com/store/page.cfm/2200


Correct me if I'm wrong but topseos.com is managed by Zunch....which is an SEO firm itself...there is an obvious conflict of interest!!!
(Unless my info is not correct but since I have 2 directories on which topseos.com submitted it's site from an email @zunch ...well well well) :cool:

Here are a few good threads that hope helps you answer many of your concerns.

Outsourcing SEM FAQs – Be Prepared to Answer! (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=2359) - If you are new to Search Engine Marketing and/or you are thinking about hiring a firm to help you with any efforts (aka: outsourcing SEM), this threads puts together a list of questions you should ask the expert search engine marketer to respond before signing an agreement with them.

The thread My Favorite SEM Elevator Pitch is (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=5896)... is focused on how to get a potential client hooked while being as short as you can.

Finally, the thread Suggestions for the ideal SEM/SEO RFP Guide (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=6256) - Addresses when an SEM firm or SEO consultant is seeking a potential client, it's important to know as much as possible about them before actually forming a business relationship. This thread's focus is for members who practice SEM/SEO for clients to share suggestions for the ideal RFP (Request for Proposal) guide. In your case, these might be questions that you should be prepared to answer.

Saludos and Buena Suerte! :)

We started a business which advertises on the Web. We work with one Company to try and improve our Pay Per Click situation and "Natural" search result listings. Another SEO company is agressively trying to get our business and promises all sorts of things. I need help to determine if these outfits are "for real".

Is there an objective Consumer Digest type of site which rates SEO companies? How can I found out other people's experiences with these companies?

Interesting enough - a firm [or consultant] that is "red hot" in one industry may not be well suited for another [possibly yours].

Plus - a website with mimimal opening resources [smallish] competiting in an industry with firms that have enormous size websites [and well-tuned] - is a major disadvantage.

Adding... a larger site but poorly developed is further "a major undertaking".

None of these factors can be address to an absolute without absolute knowledge of the site [and site history] and industry - particularly through third party referrals.

That said... your best bet is to look at many firms and have them "compete" - compare notes on all, and use what you learn to narrow the field down to 1 or 2 and then you will likely have your answer.

How can I found out other people's experiences with these companies?You truly have to judge for yourself. I'm familiar with someone who RAVES about their "SEO" getting them #1 rankings for their keyword phrase - only problem being it's a four word phrase that NOBODY searches for that can get ranked for by accident by anyone with half a mind to, and there are less than 50 searches shown at Overture and probably half of those are by that party. Totally worthless, yet they highly recommend their SEO and unless someone knows enough how to judge on their own they won' t know whether they're qualified.

Is there an objective Consumer Digest type of site which rates SEO companies? No way, there's too much confidentiality involved and plenty of fantastic SEOs are not listed anywhere. Not only that, but a "consumer digest" site wouldn't be privy to the techniques used by many in the business, nor would they be privy to their client list.

Recommendations can only be made to people any given party personally *knows* or knows of but that leaves out any number of dynamite people. Not everyone goes the "networking" route, it's not everyone's cup of tea. Plenty don't and are among the *best* around.

For example, off the top of my head if I were a client looking for services, based on my observations - just as an example - just to name a couple - I'd personally definitely be interested in Greg Boser (WebGuerrilla (http://www.webguerrilla.com/)) or Robert Charlton (who doesn't even run an SEO site that I know of) - among several others. But frankly I don't know if they're on anyone's lists or recommendations, though IMHO there are few around in their class.

Time isn't necessarily a factor. There are people around for years doing the same things they always have, which regardless of their standing and reputation for expertise, may or may not work any more. I've personally seen two people who turned out to be DYNAMITE SEOs within six months from the time they were first clueless and asking newbie questions in forums. IMHO either of them has many old-timers beat by a mile.

The best thing a person can do is get as knowledgeable as they can themselves, and then they can make more informed judgments.

Correct me if I'm wrong but topseos.com is managed by Zunch....which is an SEO firm itself...there is an obvious conflict of interest!!!
(Unless my info is not correct but since I have 2 directories on which topseos.com submitted it's site from an email @zunch ...well well well) :cool:

Actually, topseos is most likely trading linking/submissions services for advertising with Zunch. They are not managed by Zunch.

Added: I checked with Bill the owner of topseos.com and Zunch is a vendor and an ad client, but has nothing to do with owning or managing the topseos.com site.

Often these lists are either compiled because people pay to get on it or they it's a list of their friends in the industry. Many top-notch SEO firms get left out of such lists while many not-so-hot firms get listed.

Getting a recommendation from another SEO firm is great, but you also have to make sure you can trust the referrer implicitly. Getting a recommendation from someone with experience with a particular SEO firm is the best recommendation.

If you can find a list that tries to both be inclusive while maintaining certain standards for inclusion (without charging a fee), that would be a good list as a starting place, but lists do not replace your own research.

topseos.com is managed by Zunch
No, it's not managed by Zunch, as far as I know.

The client's expectation of the work to be done can make a huge difference in the quality of SEO consultant they hire.

IMO, people who are hanging an entire business marketing plan on getting search traffic tend to be a little more open to claims of "top secret processes","relationships with all the search engines". "won't change a thing on your site" and "listing your site on thousands of search engines". When you want the impossible, impossible claims make sense. If a client's only goal is to get to #1 for this and that keyword phrase, they are more likely to get taken, just my opinion.

A client who is realistically looking to grow their online business through search marketing is more likely to be attracted to benefits like conversion improvement (http://www.kangmurramedia.com), broadening keyword targeting, and usability analysis in addition to search rankings. A business approach to improving their rankings means that more realistic offerings will appeal to them, making it more likely that they will find a consultant who can build their bottom line, not just their rankings.

I'm new to the industry with a cruise site almost ready to launch as well as a real estate investor site which should be ready to go in about a month. I just realized that it's not as easy as purchasing sponsored ads and am currently going through the same issues in finding a reputable company to do SEO for us. Any recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Marc

SEMs can be a lot like architects. Many specialise in building things that suit a particular need.

Its not a case of you needing something built and us saying to you well Christopher Wren (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Saint_Pauls_Cathedral.html) is a particularly fine architect. Christopher Wren would not be a good choice for building you a hen-house. Nor a home. And probably not an office either. But if you ever need a monument, something cathedral-like, sure, Wren was a damn fine choice.

How much budget you have is certainly going to limit your choices. Quality usually costs. In general, you get what you pay for.

How interesting or prestigeous the work may also limit choices (certain SEOs can pick and choose only jobs that truly interest them). Certainly many SEOs won't be interested in handling yet another 'jumping on a blandwagon' site trying (without any originality or USP) to be the next travel site, online-casino, etc.

Personal tastes and styles will also affect your 'best choice' options. There are many ways to build something, yet each architect will choose a different and personal blend of style and materials for their approach to the building task. Just as with an achitect, you must choose someone who's work and integrity you value, and with whom you can get the rapport to ensure you'll be happy with the final creation.

A bare list of architects will do you no good. You need to see what they have built before, and to know who you will find comfortable in all respects to work with.

I can assure you that it's not just another fly by night travel site. The travel agency that I have partnered with to do the site is one I used to work for and has been in business for 26 years. The reason the site came about is because they have lost a lot of business to the internet and finally came to realize what they are missing out on. The site is www.topcruiseclub.com and we are incorporating a forum among other things to be helpful to our members. We are trying to bring more of a "brick and mortar" feel to the internet cruise site.

On a side note, has anyone heard of www.beyondink.com

I can assure you that it's not just another fly by night travel site.
Of course not. Neither, I expect, are the other 25 travel site startups I've seen this week alone in the various forums I frequent. I didn't even know your project was another travel site until you just replied. Its just that travel sites have been the most frequent requests in my email for the past 9 years. You'd have to have something mind-blowingly different to everyone else out there to get me to pay any attention past the mention of the word 'Travel' because it is all just so old hat to me.

Of course, there are many other SEO companies who'll gladly take your business.

But you won't actually succeed on the strength of SEO alone. Its not like you're going to be the first travel site to ever think to employ SEO. Nor the 101st, nor even the 1001st. SEO is no 'secret trick', no business edge in the travel industry. You will succeed or fail not in how visible you are in search, but in how memorable, professional and credible your business model is compared to all the top sites like expedia.com that even people without a computer have heard of.

So, most reputable SEOs are probably going to want a lot of details about your business model so they can market it properly to the right 'niche' market within the broader travel market. Any SEO who's reputation lives or dies on the success of thier clients can do no less.

Internet businesses are just like any other businesses. They work on the law of supply and demand. Google can already offer over a billion suppliers of Travel (http://www.google.com/search?q=Travel), which, so far as I am aware, significantly exceeds the demands of the US travel marketplace. If your business is literally the one-in-a-million uniquely superior product then you'll need an SEO who can help turn that incredible strength to your advantage despite existing players having stable incomes and existing deals. On the other hand, if you are relying on SEO to get you to the top of the SERPs where even 0.1 percent of all travel offerings compete thats still asking to top a list of 1 million on the strength of SEO alone. An SEO who can reliably do that is almost certainly already doing it for someone else in the travel market with deep pockets. Prepare to spend some serious cash to outbid rivals for the services of such an SEO (plus enough extra for the SEO to be prepared to switch from an existing deal to a new client), or to hire a long-shot.

However it goes, the best of luck to you.

just skip the seos and buy a bunch of links from a link broker

just skip the seos and buy a bunch of links from a link broker
Yeah, that's a good idea.

Can't cost more than about 40 million bucks to buy more links than Expedia right? :D

If you are trying to out rank exepedia you might need that much

how much do you think it would cost to hire a seo that can out rank expedia?

how much do you think it would cost to hire a seo that can out rank expedia?
Honestly? Probably a lot less than $400k, which is exceptionally good compared to what we both agree would be about $40M in link hires. It depends on the pay structure the SEO has of course, and may not include some costs incurred in implementation.

I don't know link sales have gotten super cheap, one of the text link brokers has $10 pr2-3 permanent links

His website appears specifically targeting vietnam travel, so he is probably not looking for general travel terms. Hes probably looking for vieatnam hotels, vacation etc

Might not be as big deal as you think.

Expedia is not the largest travel site when it comes to cruises. Yes, they are a competitor, but my major competitors are more like cruise, traveltogo and other cruise specific websites on the net. My site is topcruiseclub and we only offer cruise vacations.

Stuntdubl did a nice top ten list of things to ask over here
Thanks for the mention Danny. I actually expanded a bit on that one with some of my favorite questions that I've been asked, and some of the more impressive techniques folks have mentioned when finding us in the past.

Some of my favorite techniques I've heard for finding an optimization company:


Call lots of companies and have good questions about SEO strategy to ask them. Don’t waste anyone’s time asking the same questions over and over and expecting different answers, but take notes and get good answers - you’ll probably be surprised when you get much different answers from different people, but be more inclined to believe something if you hear it a few times. Compare notes between a few companies.
Ask each company who they would recommend if they were too busy - Many good companies ARE too busy and will be happy to tell you this.
Ask each company who they would choose between a few of your top choices…throw in a lousy SEO company to see if they’re being honest.
Ask for referrals from folks with top rankings - My new personal favorite - Do some searches for some medium level competition searches (2 word phrases not HIGHLY sought after). Call up the companies in the top spot and ask them about their SEO company. Don’t do this with YOUR phrases as you will likely get less feedback from your competitors (if any). Make sure to let the people you call know you are not a threat and just looking for assistance in shopping for help with your site.
Test the waters with smaller services - don’t jump into a year long contract with someone. Test some of their smaller services and see what customer service and response times are like. Build trust with your company.
Do searches for the names of the SEO company or the main folks in the company - this will show you their reputation within the industry. Can you imagine how much money and trouble this simple step could have saved people caught in the 1p debacle (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=traffic+power)?


The flip side of the coin on a lot of these, however, is that good SEO companies probably aren't gonna stand for the tirekicking if you go overboard on it. A couple questions where a fellow colleague thought prospects went overboard (http://seoblog.intrapromote.com/2005/10/the_hunt_for_th.html):


What title would you use for this page?
What lines of code should I add to my .htaccess file?
What is the best way to use ISAPI_Rewrite on a 5-argument ASP query string?
Should I move to a subdomain structure?
What's wrong with my current link request?


I might help to title a page, or give examples of generic link requests to help demonstrate a certain knowledge level, but I don't think it's fair for prospects to ask you to do their homework FOR them. It's a tough spot to balance how much information should be shared upon the first exchanges before any real business is done. Since the majority of SEO value is in the information, it is often difficult to draw the line between where your generousity or sales technique ends and where charging a client should begin.


So, most reputable SEOs are probably going to want a lot of details about your business model so they can market it properly to the right 'niche' market within the broader travel market. Any SEO who's reputation lives or dies on the success of thier clients can do no less.
Spot on without a doubt. A lot of times, good SEO companies (at least smaller ones) will interview YOU nearly as much as you interview them I would assume. Look for companies that ask intelligent questions of YOU as well. They want to succeed nearly as badly as you do.

A really good SEO will probably go even beyond SEO to try to make suggestions with your business model as well, and help you brainstorm beyond just search, as many other areas of the business can impact the success of an SEO campaign indirectly. Ultimately the business owner is more concerned with making money than with ranking for their one or two word vanity phrase down the road when they learn more about the process.

The success level of an SEO campaign is determined often by not only the relative success of the campaign, but the overall success of the business as well. It sure isn't gonna help an SEO company a whole lot to get top rankings for a site that may not be around in three years.

Stuntdubl, that's the most helpful information I've gotten off any of the forums I've participated in. Thanks a lot for the assistance. Definitely the opposite of Black Knight and his replies to my posts.

BK, if you had read my initial post on the subject, you would have known it was a travel site. You come off as if you are just to trying to push someone away from entering into a legitimate online business. If this isn't the case, I apologize for the accusation, but it sure comes off that way. Here's a quote from my initial inquiry on the subject:

"I'm new to the industry with a cruise site almost ready to launch as well as a real estate investor site which should be ready to go in about a month."

Then you come off with "Certainly many SEOs won't be interested in handling yet another 'jumping on a blandwagon' site trying (without any originality or USP) to be the next travel site. . . "

A really good SEO will probably go even beyond SEO to try to make suggestions with your business model as well, and help you brainstorm beyond just search, as many other areas of the business can impact the success of an SEO campaign indirectly. Ultimately the business owner is more concerned with making money than with ranking for their one or two word vanity phrase down the road when they learn more about the process.
You speak with lots of experience. ;)

Outstanding post.

Great post Todd!

A lot of times, good SEO companies (at least smaller ones) will interview YOU nearly as much as you interview them I would assume. Look for companies that ask intelligent questions of YOU as well. They want to succeed nearly as badly as you do.

One thing that I always find quite fascinating is that whilst many prospective clients want to know what they should ask of an SEM/SEO company - they often haven't actually quantified their own goals. Some have - but in my experience - most haven't.

How can someone else help you cost effectively achieve your goals if you haven't quantified what they are?

SEO and SEM are about acquiring new clients. If you don't know how much a new client is worth to you - how can you have any idea on how much to spend acquiring those new clients?

helpful information [...] the opposite of Black Knight and his replies to my posts.
Now that is what I mean about the architects analogy and finding an architect you can work with. Because it could be that many would tell you a particular SEO is excellent, but you may find them unhelpful or confrontational because you have your own perspectives that may be radically different to theirs.

If I had originally said:
SEMs can be a lot like architects. Many specialise in building things that suit a particular need.

Its not a case of you needing something built and us saying to you well Christopher Wren (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Saint_Pauls_Cathedral.html) is a particularly fine architect. Christopher Wren would not be a good choice for building you a hen-house. Nor a home. And probably not an office either. But if you ever need a monument, something cathedral-like, sure, Wren was a damn fine choice.

How much budget you have is certainly going to limit your choices. Quality usually costs. In general, you get what you pay for.

How interesting or prestigeous the work may also limit choices (certain SEOs can pick and choose only jobs that truly interest them). Certainly many SEOs won't be interested in handling yet another 'jumping on a blandwagon' site trying (without any originality or USP) to be the next online-casino, etc.

Personal tastes and styles will also affect your 'best choice' options. There are many ways to build something, yet each architect will choose a different and personal blend of style and materials for their approach to the building task. Just as with an achitect, you must choose someone who's work and integrity you value, and with whom you can get the rapport to ensure you'll be happy with the final creation.

A bare list of architects will do you no good. You need to see what they have built before, and to know who you will find comfortable in all respects to work with.

Then you'd not have over-reacted to just two-words in an entire post, and discarded everything else quoted above in a fit of what appears to be pique. In my turn, I'd be unable to work with someone so narrowly focused as to discard not only the baby, but also the tub, just over two drops of bath-water.

So despite you having a good business, and me being reasonably well rspected in the field of SEM, we wouldn't be a good match and would almost certainly be unable to work effectively together.

Let me remind you of where I unhelpfully tried to hide this wisdom that comes from ten years in this business from you.
A bare list of architects will do you no good. You need to see what they have built before, and to know who you will find comfortable in all respects to work with

BK, if you had read my initial post on the subject, you would have known it was a travel site. You come off as if you are just to trying to push someone away from entering into a legitimate online business. If this isn't the case, I apologize for the accusation, but it sure comes off that way.
I tried hard to phrase myself in a way that might "push someone away" from the mistaken belief that SEM was an answer to making a business work. The idea is to phrase it in a way that is honest and truthful and so will be seen as nothing more than stating an honest and (should be) obvious fact.

I take the extra trouble to reply in such fashion because this is not a private email between us, but an open, public reply to an open, public question, that may in time be read by many people in each camp. Those with the business strength to succeed, and those who think SEM is a short-cut around the need to have a strong business case.

The fact remains that roughly 95% of all internet ventures fail. They go bust without ever even making back their hosting costs, never mind the investment of time or resources into actually building the site. That's a reality of the world, and comparable to offline business success and failure too. That should not tell you that I'm saying you are going to fail. It should tell you that you have to have the vision and commitment to be able to differentiate your business into that 5% that succeed.

The differentiation doesn't lie in SEO, but higher up the chain in Marketing (http://www.cre8asiteforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9134).

What you, or any other reader, may do with that honest information, whether to find it helpful or not, is entirely within your own scope.

I see what you mean, but you mistook my initial request. I am simply looking for a few well respected SEO's for me to look into and discuss my website as well as my goals for my business. My goal with this discussion is simply to get a few to compare and go from there. There are people responding with information that is helpful in respect to interviewing an SEO, but as of yet, I have only received one message with a name which I asked if anyone has heard of prior to me moving forward into the "interview process". I'm not over reacting to anything in my eyes. It just seems funny that you could analyze anything prior to reviewing a business or hearing about the plans for the future of the business. A lot of what you said is helpful, and I understand where you are coming from, but to lump together all new travel sites as "jumping on the bandwagon" is quite an accusation to make prior to reviewing the website. Wouldn't you say? It just seems to make me seccond guess the other information you offer since prior to reading the information, I have no clue or idea who you are. To be honest, you say you are "well respected" in the field, but I don't know who is or who isn't. I have to take things as they are written here. Hence the reason I apologized if I took what you said the wrong way. It's easy to do when you're reading a post. It's not the first time I've done it and most certainly not the last.

Once again, I ask has anyone heard of Beyond Ink and can anyone recommend a few people to move forward with?

On another note, thanks for the link to the marketing. That's some great information. We've got most of the bases covered in that aspect. I'm not new to business, just to internet business. We're currently in the process of tying up the last few promotions that we're going to be using for launch and once that step is completed we'll be launching (with or without search engine advertising). We're using radio and plan on using tv ads and billboards as well in the near future.

I am simply looking for a few well respected SEO's for me to look into and discuss my website as well as my goals for my business. My goal with this discussion is simply to get a few to compare and go from there.
Then I'll happily repeat my earlier link to the SEO Consultants Directory (http://www.seoconsultants.com/).

Now we're getting someplace.

I am simply looking for a few well respected SEO's for me to look into and discuss my website as well as my goals for my business. OK, so you're out "shopping" and want to know what to look at. You're smelling the chickens and squeezing the fruit, so to speak.

My goal with this discussion is simply to get a few to compare and go from there. Upon what basis are these discussions to happen? How many do you expect to chat with, and how long do you think each conversation (plus looking through your site) with each SEO/Consultant will take, prior to engaging services - or RFP's, to have these conversations, in order for you to assess and compare their plans and opinions, and make your decision?

Any idea how many, or how long it will take to have these discussions with each one concerning your site and your business plan? It doesn't have to be exact, a ballpark figure will do. You know your business, only you can tell us that. Do you anticipate it will last an hour each? Two hours each?

BK, I went there and appreciate the link. The problem with using that is the fact that nobody has recommended any of them so it's a complete guess as to who to use. As I stated, I'm new to the industry and although I know something about banners, pops, and email from past experiences with friends that are in the business, I know absolutely nothing about SEM or SEO so I wouldn't know if they were decent or not (anyone can say I'll get you in the top 5). To me it makes things a lot easier to get recommendations and go from there.

Marcia, I'd like to compare 3 or 4 recommended SEO's. As for how long it will take, I don't know simply because I don't know what the conversation will consist of. I could simply email my company information and agenda as well as what we will be offerring to our customers for them to review and they could contact me with any questions they have. Our scheduled launch date is Monday the 31st if that is any assistance. We are all anxious to launch the site and have some amazing promotional deals to launch with.

You are sadly missing a few things still, which I guess is understandable of someone new to this. Let me try to explain and help guide you to finding what you want.

Firstly, the SEO Consultants site is all selective. The companies there are all recommended, or at least, have been selected from thousands of applications by a review process. Qualifying which of them you want to work with is your job. Noone else is qualified to do more than they have done. You could use the SEO consultants directory, shortlist based on the work examples and details provided, and then interview that short-list.

The second point is more fundamental. You are in the wrong place for what you are asking for. We are not independant reviewers of SEO - we here are the actual SEO providers. Just because we are largely able to hold civil debates here, does not mean we wouldn't (civilly of course) stab each other in the back to get a good contract. :)

Not only are we (in the main) politely competitive, but we are not buyers of SEO. I know hundreds of SEM providers socially and as part of my contacts network, but I don't know them in the client relationship. And although we may know ex-clients of other SEOs, there is bound to be bias there.

I wouldn't think for a moment of asking you which cruise site I should use, because if you named any but your own you'd be a fool to, and I'd be a fool to ask you to.

Nobody sets out to be inferior to competitors. So every SEO is the 'best' according to their own precise mix of the 4Ps of marketing. You have to sort your own order of those 4Ps in terms of values, and then find one that matches.

Thirdly, this is where it may be best to simply go to your local Chamber of Commerce and see who other businesses with similar needs bought from. What they liked, and what they'd caution against. That's the only way to get customer advice and reviews. From anyone else, no matter how much it might look like advice and reviews, it is actually just advertising.

BK, that clears up a lot. I didn't realize that everyone here was an SEO. I have been researching the SEO Consultants Directory all day and have found a few that I'm going to contact. After all the BS we went through in the beginning, you have provided a lot of assistance and I'm almost upset that you feel that we aren't able to work together. Thanks again.

I have been researching the SEO Consultants Directory all day and have found a few that I'm going to contact.
Good to hear, and I hope it works out well for you. It would be great if you could let us know how it goes, maybe sharing some of the things that made positive or negative impressions (without naming the companies involved is probably best), so that if/when someone else looking for advice in this forum comes by, there's a little of the 'consumer' side already here to guide them. That might also help some of the SEOs to also reconsider how certain ideas might come across to the consumer and help them too.

Again, good luck and good hunting. :)

I'm almost upset that you feel that we aren't able to work together. Thanks again.
Heh, you are probably very lucky that we won't work together. I'm the grumpy old-timer of SEO who has been in this business so long that I can sometimes have a very different perspective, and way too little patience. Just imagine me sat in a rocking chair, grumbling about the SEO 'youngsters' who are still wet behind the ears. :D The grumbling is not unkind, and is just the consequence of so many years of watching so many lessons learnt, and frustration at still seeing the same mistakes made time and again.

I used <snip> for my SEO company and they did a good job. It wasn't too expensive and got me ranked for some great keywords pretty fast. I started seeing some sales but then when I discotinued using them I started dropping. So I hired them to manage my site on a monthly basis and I've been very happy since then. Hope this helps guys.

I started seeing some sales but then when I discotinued using them I started dropping.
That does seem pretty logical, that when you stopped using them you started dropping in the search engine rankings. There may have been a few links that they got to your website that they completely controlled, and when you stopped using them they removed the links to your website.

Honestly, that may be more of an indication of a non-reputable search engine optimization company than one that is reputable. If they spend time building quality backlinks to your website, then those links should "stick" and remain in place. If an SEO company spends time "getting you links" that are not good solid backlinks (perhaps links that they control), then they would have the ability to remove those links when you stop paying them.

If you hire an SEO company or firm to go out and get you links--which any reputable SEO company should do--then they should be getting you "good" links, like links from EDU., GOV, and other links that would stick around for a while. Whether you continue to pay the SEO firm should not have anything to do with the links.

I hate to post on an old thread, but it seems as though that a lot of us are still looking for reputable SEO companies. One way to figure out if the company is reputable or not is to ask them questions. These questions are not necessarily in order of importance, and they may not apply to every search engine optimization project. But in any case, here is my list of questions that you should consider asking your potential search engine optimization company.

What type of search engine optimization techniques do you use to achieve search engine rankings?

What type of risk is involved with your method of search engine optimization?

What will happen if our relationship is dissolved?

Can you show me examples of past work?

What was the client’s ROI of their search engine optimization efforts?

Can you give me references? Can I talk to one or more of your current search engine optimization clients?

What type of volume increase in traffic is reasonable to expect from search engine optimization?

How long until I start to see results?

What would you expect from OUR end to aid your work?

What were some of your top search ranking achievements?

What types of internet marketing services do you offer to supplement your SEO (search engine optimization) offerings?

Will my web site point to your web site?

How many number one search engine rankings you have achieved for your clients?

How long have you been providing search engine optimization services?

Are you an individual consultant or are you part of a search engine optimization team?

How long have you and your search engine optimization team been online?

What types of web sites will you not promote?

Do you participate and/or, are you a moderator for any of the SEO – Search Engine Optimization / SEM – Search Engine Marketing Forums? If so, what is your username and can you provide links to your most recent or notable discussions?

Can you describe and/or produce recent successful search engine optimization campaign results?

If so, can I use those clients for references?

Do you have web site design experience?

What is your technical background?

What types of programming environments are you experienced with?

What are your opinions in regards to Best Practices for the SEO – Search Engine Optimization / SEM – Search Engine Marketing industry? How does a company effectively compete online using traditional optimization strategies?

Can you assure us that the search engine optimization strategies and methods that you are utilizing fall under the criteria of Best Practices for the SEO/SEM Industry? Can we assume that this means no penalties for our website?

How many search engine optimization campaigns have you been involved with?

What was your role for those projects?

How many of those search engine optimization projects are still active?

How many of those search engine optimization projects inactive?

If inactive, why?

Do you have experience managing PPC – Pay Per Click, CPC – Cost Per Click, and other bid management campaigns?

What types of programs do you use for PPC bid management?

Are there any guarantees for top search engine positions if we decide not to use a PPC program?

The web sites we are currently linked to have no rank, which means to me that these links are useless.

What linking strategies would you use to increase link popularity for our website?

Is this service part of the proposed price? What types of websites will you target for link exchange?

Our main competitor’s Google PageRank falls between 1 and 3. How would you address improving our PageRank with Google, and other search engines that calculate the number of quality inbound links to our website? Is it possible to rank higher than our competitors?

What changes can we expect you to make to our website to improve our positioning in the search engines?

Will these search engine optimization changes be visible?

Will there be changes in the coding of our website?

What type of reporting (website log analysis) will you provide to us? How often will you provide those reports? Will you provide consultation on how to interpret the reports so that we have a basic understanding of the statistics?

Do you offer ROI analysis? Is this in addition to your contract pricing? Please explain the process of how the ROI will be determined.

Matt Cutts, from Google, recently had this to say about what you should ask your SEO:
Do you buy links that pass PageRank?
What’s the most aggressive tactic you use?
Anything violate G’s guidelines?

lol the Matt Cutts questions are just funny

good list Bill but by time you ask all of them you could read a couple of seo books

Yeah, I agree, there are a lot of questions there. You could definitely read a few SEO books. I've run these questions by several other reputable SEO companies and a few of them didn't want to answer any of them, only two could answer all of them (or most of them).

no doubt the current unnatural link chaos is getting more people to question SEO companies - the sad part is just like Panda the method was okay previously

Just because Google changes the lines does not mean the wrong thing was being done before then

over optimized is too many links with the same anchor text - that is whether they are site wide or multiple sites

it used to be okay but G has now decided the links should be more mixed - the random surfer theory again - they expect people to have the domain or company name as the dominant text followed by a lot of varied keywords in the anchor text - have a couple of keyword phrases that outnumber them and you are unnatural

sad thing is alt tags and widget links are part of this too - gone are the appropriate sites, gone is a sense of what is natural - Google wants to stop link building and have normal references

but what if I write a great article about the latest Panda update or any highly interesting breaking or suddenly popular topic and the vast majority who write about it use the same link text

Google wants loads of people to submit a list of links so they can look for patterns as opposed to just pulling the reports themselves and doing the work - hey they would need 500 full time people working on this and would take a couple of years