I won’t go into all of the reasons why DMOZ listings take so long to show up or why some never show up, but here is a tip to avoid the DMOZ black hole.

For fastest results, submit only to a category that has an editor. Chances are, your topic could fit in multiple DMOZ categories. So of course look for a category that meets the normal requirements such as being on topic and having the best available PRV, but make sure that the category you select has an editor.

To see if a category has an editor, look at the bottom on the DMOZ page and see if there is an editor listed. Many if not most categories seem to be without an editor these days as will be evidenced at the bottom of the page by a link to “Volunteer to edit this category” instead of giving the editor information.

To get right to it, simply do a search at Google as follows: (insert your logical words in place of widgets)

widgets "category editor" site: dmoz.org

This example search will return DMOZ categories that are or may be on topic for widgets AND that actually have an editor.

Hope this helps.

It's better to just submit to the most appropriate category IMO.

Categories with Editors (http://www.dummies-guide-to-dmoz.org/categories_with_editors.htm)

Categories with No Editors (http://www.dummies-guide-to-dmoz.org/categories_with_no_editors.htm)

ODP Essay: Beating the Odds (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12431)

ODP Essay: Unique Content (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11993)

ODP Editor's Letter to a Friend (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11226)

>For fastest results, submit only to a category that has an editor.

This is really bad advice and may mean it takes longer to get listed.

No category is without an editor - EVERY category has lots of editors.

If you submit to the wrong category (just because an editor listed), you will wait there until the editor gets to you, they will then move you to the unreviewed pool of the correct category and you will wait there until an editor gets to you --- you will then have waited twice for an editor, rather than once.....bad move.

Good points Birdie about waiting 2x if you submit to the wrong category. It is never a good idea to submit to an improper category. We have however found that many web sites could appropriately fit into any one of several categories.

We have all seen examples of direct competitor web sites with highly related content that are listed in different DMOZ categories, and where a strong argument could be made (and was, obviously) that they were properly categorized.

Here's how we see it - for a brand new site the DMOZ listing should be the first link you get. If so, and if done right, it's potentially the most important link you will get. Because it's so important we look at potential DMOZ listings just as thoroughly as we would look at a page where we were considering purchasing a text link - considering pagerank, page title, the number of outbound links, key word relevancy, all the usuals. We believe that looking through the DMOZ categories for the *best* place to obtain the link is proper practice provided that the site legitimately fits the category to which it is submitted, as mentioned above.

To close the loop, timing is important to us and because we want the DMOZ listing first, we want it fast. When all other factors are mostly equal and we have a choice of legitimate categories, for faster results we take the category with the editor ;-)

Submit to the right category.
Write a proper title and description -- the ODP guidelines are public so READ them.
Make sure you've got plenty of content AND make it easy to find.
Make sure your understanding of unique is the same as ODP's.

i submitted to DMOZ bout two months ago - not totally nercous yet, but a little. Especially since I am planning on DMOZ getting me into teoma for free, and hopefully jeeves after that - for free. So this is important to me. But my site isnt there yet. How long should I wait to try to re-submit? I will (if I didn't) use the guidelines presented in this forum, of course.

Thanks for the help.

elitemiller, you should not count on DMOZ for anything.

You might try installing Teoma's toolbar for a week or two (be sure to browse your site daily) and see if it encourages Teoma/Ask to spider your site. It semed to work for me once, though it may have been a coincidence (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7767&perpage=10&pagenumber=2#post139518).

All in all the best way to get picked up by Teoma is to get a link to your site from a page that gets spidered frequently by Teoma. DMOZ is just one place that this could happen. Does the DMOZ category yoiu are trying for have an editor? IMHO at some point (3 months?) it gets to the point where contacting the editor may be appropriate but be carefull not to demand or complain, just be polite and ask if you did something wrong ;-)

If there is no editor, you can try the editor in the next level up the directory.

There are no doubt other perspectives on when, how or even if it is a good idea to try to contact an editor- so bring 'em on.

elitemiller, you should not count on DMOZ for anything.

You might try installing Teoma's toolbar for a week or two (be sure to browse your site daily) and see if it encourages Teoma/Ask to spider your site. It semed to work for me once, though it may have been a coincidence (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7767&perpage=10&pagenumber=2#post139518).

Right on to that. DMOZ sucks and is going down the drain quick smart nowadays. You want spiders, then pay the small cost, get yourself quickly and easily into Gimpsy, Go Guides, Skaffe, Joe Ant and so forth. All these are classed as major directories and are all heavily spidered by all engines. Get in them, and your success of being listed further greatly improves, without DMOZ and the hassles. Yes, submit to DMOZ, if you get in, great! If not, blow it off, move on, and you have the other major influential directories also working for you. Pay the money, become an editor, just do it! Nike!

my category "Recreation: Outdoors: Directories" does have an editor - whether or not this person is alive anymore is another guess. You are thinking wait until it's been three months, and the IMHO? That sounds about right to me - and politeness will count. Mama always said "Ya catch more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar".

Thanks for the help.

Keep in mind that just because there's an editor listed in a category, it doesn't mean that there's an active editor there. Plenty of categories have listed editors that were once active, but that no longer edit. I very actively edited a category a few years back, but eventually time constraints kept me from being able to edit. Even though I told someone higher up that I no longer had time to edit, I believe it took 4 or 5 months before my name to be removed from the category.

At the same time, when I was editing, there were a few sub-categories that my name wasn't listed on, but that I still edited on a daily basis. As many others have said, submit to the most appropriate category. Otherwise you risk having your site end up in the "black hole" of being sent between categories looking for a proper home.

Additionally, while a DMOZ listing is certainly worth pursuing, don't lose sleep over it. Once you've submitted and submitted properly, there's not anything that worrying is going to accomplish. Move on and spend that time seeking other quality links to your site. Plenty of Web sites do just peachy in the rankings without ever having a DMOZ listing. It's a nice link to get, but it's not essential to a good SEO/SEM campaign.

>DMOZ sucks and is going down the drain quick smart nowadays

How do you reach that conclusion?

The minnows that you mentioned do not come remotely close to DMOZ in terms of size and rate of growth.

>without DMOZ and the hassles

What are the hassles associated with DMOZ? The 'suggest a site' page is not complicated (maybe it is for you?). Why do you find that a hassle?

It has been implied several times now on this thread, that for every site, there is only one DMOZ category to which the site could properly be submitted. While I agree that it is important to submit only to proper categories, I reiterate that if one looks carefully there may be more than one *proper* category for a given website. Previous posts mention a few reasons why someone might want to look around a little bit and select the *best* proper DMOZ category.

Case in point, take a look at the following 5 established websites for comparison. All 5 sites are satellite internet access providers and all are direct competitors of each other. They are all just as much like each other, as are Coke & Pepsi, McDonalds & Burger King, Pontiac & Buick, etc. - they all provide essentially the same thing under different brands.

These 5 sites are in 5 different DMOZ categories. Are 4/5 of them really in the *wrong* DMOZ category?

http://www.spacenet.com/
Business/Telecommunications/Services/Satellite/

http://www.vsat-systems.com
Computers/Data_Communications/Wireless/Satellite/

http://www.net2dish.com
Business/Telecommunications/Services/Satellite/Internet

http://www.starband.com
Computers/Internet/Access_Providers/Satellite/

http://www.skycasters.com
Computers/Internet/Access Providers/Regional/North America/United States

Bonus question ;-)
If you were submitting a site for a satellite internet company, which DMOZ category (read:which page your link will come from) would you chose and why? Would you also consider PR, number of out links, the presence of an editor, on-page kw density, page title, etc when deciding which category to submit to?

Would you also consider PR, number of out links, the presence of an editor, on-page kw density, page title, etc when deciding which category to submit to?

I wouldn't personally - but should I start? I thought that because it's a "human" directory, then KW density and the overall theory behind SEO would be thrown out the window. Correct me on that if necessary.

I would find the best category for me (categories IF there are more than one) and submit it there. Our site is (going to be) a nationwide directory of outdoor recreation activities. I submitted to Recreation: Outdoors: Directories (http://www.dmoz.com/Recreation/Outdoors/Directories/) because I think that is the best place for it. Now our site would/could fit into some of the next sub-categories, such as:


A) boating (we have State Parks & Lakes/River on our site)
B) camping (we list public campgrounds)
C) fishing (see A)
D) hiking (we list trails)
E) horseback riding (we list all trails, hikers, bikers, and equestrian)
F) hunting (a little bit of a push here - but hunting does occur in National Foests & Wildlife Preserves and we list them)


However, just because I could fit my site into any of those areas, I also have to look and say "How much of my site is directed strictly at boating?" Granted, I list areas for boating - but that doesn't make it a boating directory. So...I just submitted for Recreation: Outdoors: Directories (http://www.dmoz.com/Recreation/Outdoors/Directories/) and hope for the best. (I'm still waiting hehe)

No attempt at the bonus question from me.

JohnW:

1. It is a very bad idea to base a choice of category on published list of editors. You really don't know if a category is maintained by upper level editors OR if it is neglected despite having several listed editors. More important: if editor feels that site is submitted to a wrong category it will go into pipeline to find the category where it fits best.

2. Your example shows that we are all error-prone humans. This particular mistake is called a "category overlap". Editors of several branches of directory tend to independently create a subcategories with similar scope. Merging them sometimes is a pain and takes time to reach a consensus about best solution. We will try to resove this particular overlap as soon as possible.

In fact it is partially resolved already. Two of categories you mention were merged:
Business/Telecommunications/Services/Satellite/Internet is a redirect to
Computers: Internet: Access Providers: Satellite
They can still be reffered by two different names only for convenience of users.

As a submitter you should base your choice not only on the title of category and its current content but also on its description.

For example for Business: Telecommunications: Services: Satellite it says:
"Submit sites whose primary focus is the business of providing satellite-related telecommunications services. Appropriate sites include ones related to service providers, trade associations, software makers, consultants, education, training, conferences and media. "

For its subcategory Business/Telecommunications/Services/Satellite/Internet (which is a redirect, as mentioned above) it says simply: "Satellite internet access providers".

Without consulting editors of both categories I would suggest to place companies focused on satellite internet access into the narrower category and companies with wider scope of activity which includes the different uses of satellite communication into wider one.

Now lets see description of Computers/Data_Communications/Wireless/Satellite/:
If you are a manufacturer or supplier of equipment please submit your site to the <A HREF="/Business/Industries/Telecommunications/Wireless/Equipment/Satellite/">Satellite Equipment</a> category.

If your site is designed to sell directly to the consumer market please submit your site to the <A HREF="/Shopping/Consumer_Electronics/Digital_Satellite/">Shopping</a> category.

If you are a supplier of communication software please submit your site to the <A HREF="/Computers/Software/Industry-Specific/Telecommunications/Wireless/">Wireless Software</a> category.

We also have categories in our <A HREF="/Arts/Television/Satellite/">Arts</a> and <A HREF="/Science/Technology/Space/Satellites/Communications/">Science</a> sections which deal specifically with TV broadcasting and Science issues.


I would say that it is quite informative and detailed, isn't it?

Lets see the last one:
Computers/Internet/Access_Providers/Regional/North_America/United_States
described as:
Internet Access Providers in the United States. National ISPs would go at this level, while locals and regionals should be added under the states. Nationals should not be entered under the states, unless they want to add a listing to their home state's category (and the description for that link should be changed to reflect that). Sites that do not offer Internet access, such as companies that specialize in web hosting and domain name registration, don't belong here (they should be added under Business: Companies: Internet: Web Services, Business: Companies: Internet: Domain Registration, and so on).


It seems that editor of this category overlooked that satellite internet providers can be both satellite telecommunication companies AND nation-wide internet access providers.

This particular overlap will be resolved soon.

And where submitter should go today? I would say there is not much to win or loose by choosing one of relevant categories. If they will be merged their content will be reorganised accordingly to what site itself offers to users. And ODP editor for sure will check it by himself.