I'm sure that just like myself, there are many people on the boards who would like to get information about 3rd party link building services. Can anyone make specific recommendations about either automated link building services or manual submission services that are especially cost-effective or worthwhile?

Generally Atomated link building services may be penalised by search engines though they are cost-effective. Mannual submission is best way, may be little costly but it worth-while.

Sharad

I am a huge fan of comprehensive directory registration...in fact I made those services a big part of my business model because I think there is a ton of value and demand in that.

When getting links try to go for one time fee links before getting too heavy in any recurring fee link ideas.

try to get links from a broad base of IP ranges vice spending a ton on one or two links that may or may not produce effects.

I know EricWard is known for site announcement stuff and DeboraM from alliance link and the guys from linking matters are a few of the people who have branded themselves as expert 3rd party link builders.

stay away from automated contact with humans if you are trying to keep up a good brand image.

I use some automated stuff to find where to get links but never automate contact with humans.

Here are some things to consider when talking with 3rd party link bulders.

First, be sure to be upfornt that you want links that are gathered through ethical ways - period. No networks, no funny stuff. They can not be links from any directory listings (except the top 30 directories) or link exchange pages (for example: links.html pages) if you want to really focus on “A Positive Step Forward in Link Strategies (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=530)”.

Then, send them something like this:



1) What's the process? pay first or after? how much pre-analysis do you need or just send you the keywords and that's it?

2) What's the typical turn around time?

3) If you get 100 links, will they come from 100 different domains or 100 from 1 domain? <---- adding to Aaron's (seobook) post.

4) Are the links coming from webpages on the same theme or anything goes?

5) Do I have anchor text control?

6) Do you have any DMOZ contacts to follow up on submissions (ie. moderators)?

7) Is there a discount on volume and repeat business.

8) Is there a volume capacity level (say you will not take a job greater than or less than X links)?

9) Do you provide the list of links to verify, including PageRank?

10) Can you give me 2 references of highly reputable SEOs that you work for as an outsourcing specialist?
Hope this helps!

Saludos,

Nacho

They can not be links from any directory listings (except the top 30 directories)

I still think there is value in listing in smaller directories or new directories that are being promoted heavily. as long as the pages are getting indexed, the IP range is unique, and the site is not likey to go away soon or get banned anything that is one time fee pays over and over again.

for example, before this year directories such as
http://www.bluefind.com or
http://www.incrawler.com
did not exist, and today they are both solidly powerful links for a one time fee.

one thing that hurts many directories is that some do not advertise enough to get their deep category pages indexed. if you list on some of those pages you will want to link to them from a different site to get those pages indexed.

one big advantage of small directories over large directories is that you are usually only a few nodes removed from the home page and thus it is likely your links will get indexed.

search engines have no way to definitively determine quality... that is why they rely on the feedback loop links provide them. a link 15 nodes deep in http://www.DMOZ.org will likely not be worth more than (or even as much as) a link one or two nodes removed from the home page of http://www.linkopedia.com or http://www.ajdee.com

Nacho, some of your recommendations are just plain odd - what has DMOZ contacts got to do with it? And why not networks? You don't seem to be talking about "link building" as much as an extremely laborious process of "link gathering" that any webmaster can do themselves with regular time and commitment.

IMO a link builder should be able to offer clients:

1. anchor text control
2. anchor text variations
3. specific number of static pages for links
4. specified number of unique C classes being used
5. full record of where all the links are
6. theming
7. semantically sound content
8. expert listing
9. clear warnings that effects from link building takes time to filter through.



However, it all depends on market, method, aims, etc. Someone running a pharmaceuticals site might be just as happy to pay someone minimum wage to do widespread blog spamming.

However, it all depends on market, method, aims, etc. Someone running a pharmaceuticals site might be just as happy to pay someone minimum wage to do widespread blog spamming.
look for 301 redirects to get heavily abused in the next year or so

I still think there is value in listing in smaller directories or new directories that are being promoted heavily. as long as the pages are getting indexed, the IP range is unique, and the site is not likey to go away soon or get banned anything that is one time fee pays over and over again.

one big advantage of small directories over large directories is that you are usually only a few nodes removed from the home page and thus it is likely your links will get indexed.

Good advice seobook. I agree, within the guidelines you mentioned above, in my experience big and small directories are helpful for link building.

Aaron,

Yes, good advice. IMO, I would only use a 3rd party link builder for the difficult time consuming links. Drectory submissions are a no brainer to have on any level and pretty simple to get just following the process.

I, Brian,

It's always impossible to please a crowd when not writing my ideas complete and clearly. You have very good recommendations and seem to know very well the topic. How much would you pay for links with all that in your reach?

Aaron,

Yes, good advice. IMO, I would only use a 3rd party link builder for the difficult time consuming links. Drectory submissions are a no brainer to have on any level and pretty simple to get just following the process.

I, Brian,

It's always impossible to please a crowd when not writing my ideas complete and clearly. You have very good recommendations and seem to know very well the topic. How much would you pay for links with all that in your reach?

I have other creative linking strategies but do not use them for most sites. links from like 50 or so unique IP ranges should have a significant impact on most websites rankings.

Sorry, Nacho - I appreciate that you were not offering a complete essay on the subject, merely immediate thoughts.

As with all SEO, there are different markets for different methodologies.

How about on-topic link will get more value than off-topic link? Those link strategies can be based on Google Algorithms only or including Yahoo? I heard that Yahoo focuses on On-Page Factor more off-page factor. Google view the link from IP address not domain or sub-domain. How about if you get multiple links from many pages in one site( an ip-address)? it is less value than get from different page in many different website.

How about on-topic link will get more value than off-topic link? Those link strategies can be based on Google Algorithms only or including Yahoo? I heard that Yahoo focuses on On-Page Factor more off-page factor. Google view the link from IP address not domain or sub-domain. How about if you get multiple links from many pages in one site( an ip-address)? it is less value than get from different page in many different website.

Nuttakorn....a link is a link is a link to some engines, just not google. Yahoo places less emphasis on links than Google, but they still play a significant role within Yahoo. Just try and achieve top rankings in Yahoo without a few good links. Yahoo, get links and lots of them, use anchor text. Google, get quality directory and like niche links from unique IP's to achieve stability for top rankings in Google, with anchor text. Quality is the emphasis with Google, quantity with Yahoo. I have no doubt that will change significantly as Yahoo and MSN further develp their link algo's.

O, and I have to agree with Aaron, that there is real value in smaller directories. I spend a significant amount advertising my own directory, and on global listings. The value is created by those running them IMO. The only problem with many of them, is that they never charged for a basic listing before, where now they are all jumping on the gravy train to make a quick buck. What many of these narrow minded smaller directories don't realise, is that by offering free submission, you get more listings, and make more money on other advertisement mediums across your site.

Anthony - lots of good advice. Thank you. I went ahead and purchased a link from you and I will continue to try to utilize the smaller directories per your recommendations. Hopefully all this effort will eventually change my title.

A good copywriter and really great articles can make link building much easier. Instead of having to chase links, check them, make sure they are up, etc.. requests are more frequently accepted and you get more natural links w/o having to ask. The smaller directories are definitely key too.

Put some nice reviews (even small ones) or writeups of related sites in your industry on your site & some of these sites will see the referrals, check out your site, sometimes post what you wrote about them and link back.

Anthony - lots of good advice. Thank you. I went ahead and purchased a link from you and I will continue to try to utilize the smaller directories per your recommendations. Hopefully all this effort will eventually change my title.

No probs. Gee that makes it sound like a hipocrit though....what you mean is you purchased one of my limited sponsor ads, instead of using my free submission.

I know what you meant, but some may not. Thanks.

Put some nice reviews (even small ones) or writeups of related sites in your industry on your site & some of these sites will see the referrals, check out your site, sometimes post what you wrote about them and link back.
<testing theory>
all internet marketers are wonderful people.
http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Internet/Web_Design_and_Development/Promotion/
send links to seobook.com (postage prepaid!)
</testing theory>

;)

OK Guys, lets get back to this thread's topic "Effective 3rd Party Services for Link Building".

This about how to achieve success with 3rd party services rather than importance and relevancy to the search engine's algorithm for the actual link.

Thanks! :)

NOTE: Please use the "Rate this Thread" and "Rate this Post" features to help other Members know about what you think.

OK Guys, lets get back to this thread's topic "Effective 3rd Party Services for Link Building".

This about how to achieve success with 3rd party services rather than importance and relevancy to the search engine's algorithm for the actual link.

Thanks! :)

NOTE: Please use the "Rate this Thread" and "Rate this Post" features to help other Members know about what you think.

I think we all have success stories using various different techniques. I think it is important to know what links count and how much...that is how you achieve success, by knowing what matters.

to me I think broad base of IP ranges w keyword rich links = the key.

reason being renting a few links does not cost much time
reciprocal linking campaigns can be done by a person in India for a few dollars an hour.
my directory registration concept requires an investment of time and money...that is one thing that many people overlook too, how hard will it be for my competitors to go through and replicate my actions.

by requiring time and money it adds a good shield on the effect of your actions.

googles algorithmic value is likely inversely proportional to the ease with which we manipulate it. thus they want it to be somewhat expensive and time consuming to manipulate to make the ads look more appealing.

another good technique is to work customer links into articles as examples...those links are hard for competitors to get.

Valid points, Aaron.

reason being renting a few links does not cost much time
reciprocal linking campaigns can be done by a person in India for a few dollars an hour.
To someone in the U.S. it can be seen as a "few dollars an hour", but to someone in India it is a high paying job worth doing it right and increasing its business to be highly profitable.

another good technique is to work customer links into articles as examples...those links are hard for competitors to get.
I believe in this technique very much as well, then this is what it should be requested to a 3rd party as part of the link building strategy.

To someone in the U.S. it can be seen as a "few dollars an hour", but to someone in India it is a high paying job worth doing it right and increasing its business to be highly profitable.
that is why I do not view large scale reciprocal linking as a long term effective business model for most sites.

I believe in this technique very much as well, then this is what it should be requested to a 3rd party as part of the link building strategy.
I guess my problem is that I am kinda refering to myself in the 3rd party sense because I usually do not want to / do not like to / do not have the time to do full seo services...I rather do registration and write a few articles and get a few other links here and there and then teach the webmaster enough to where they can do the in the site stuff on their own.

I still got a bunch to learn, but my recent business model has been working better than anticipated :)

that is why I do not view large scale reciprocal linking as a long term effective business model for most sites.
I agree with you. Specially when it comes to having a 3rd party doing your link building, then IMO it should stick to one-way links since they are harder to get.
I still got a bunch to learn, but my recent business model has been working better than anticipated :)
You're doing very well Aaron! Keep up the great work. Before you know it, you might be managing an entire school of webmasters.

You're doing very well Aaron! Keep up the great work. Before you know it, you might be managing an entire school of webmasters.
yuckie...I do not want to be any type of manager ... am more of the antidisestablishmentarian type... :)

Yes, good advice. IMO, I would only use a 3rd party link builder for the difficult time consuming links. Directory submissions are a no brainer to have on any level and pretty simple to get just following the process.

To my colleagues:
I have to disagree. I have many satisified client tried-to-do-it-myselfers who had no idea what a directory was or why it was important to their site. It took a good amount of detailed discussion to have the light pop on over their head.

It's easy for we professionals to think of things such as link building as a "no brainer" but the fact is most people who do not associate within our community have little understanding of what we do and how we do it. We have an extemely high, never ending learning curve.

Randfish:
Nacho and the others have given great suggestions on how to spot an ethical link building service, two points I want to pass on to you are:

1. Ask for examples of their work that is relative to your site. If you find a 3rd party service who has experience in your market that makes it that much easier for you (and maybe cheaper since they already have the contacts).

2. Ask for references. Of course you talk this with a grain salt as their references will be hand picked, but you get to talk to a current customer which could tell you more than the rep you talk to.

Good luck!

To my colleagues:
I have to disagree. I have many satisified client tried-to-do-it-myselfers who had no idea what a directory was or why it was important to their site. It took a good amount of detailed discussion to have the light pop on over their head.

It's easy for we professionals to think of things such as link building as a "no brainer" but the fact is most people who do not associate within our community have little understanding of what we do and how we do it. We have an extemely high, never ending learning curve.

I agree Jeff. To explain how link building works to clients can be complex. What we take as "simple" being immersed in SEO often is not so for the client. It is not just the submission process the client needs to understand, but the concept of what it will produce for them that takes so much time to explain.

The process, as often is the case, is more difficult to understand than the end product.

I had such a hard time explaining link building to one of my clients. Actually, he still doesn't get it right. I even tried writing up two documents with pictures to explain it, one named Web Links Explained - Beginner Guide (http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/000664.html), the other named What is a Backlink or Inbound Link (IBL)? (http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/000855.html).

Easy?
http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/backlink-explained.gif

Now thats pretty funny rusty :confused:

Thanks for all your input. I think there's some valuable advice, but I'm hoping we can make it even more specific.

Has anyone worked directly with a 3rd party link-building service or outsourced their link building to great success?

Are there particular sites, companies or individuals that you highly recommend for this work?

After looking around a bit, I am considering spending a portion of my budget with Jarrod at www.textlinkbrokers.com for some links, any opinions on them specifically?

Thanks

SEOBook speaks highly of textlinkbrokers.com and I am also going to begin using their services after much dismay with other brokers. They have been the only one's highly recommended to me for use.

I would like to know did anybody submitted any sites to directories Seobook mentions in this thread?
And if you did what is your experience?

I would like to know did anybody submitted any sites to directories Seobook mentions in this thread?
And if you did what is your experience?

I'm not quite sure which post your referencing from SEOBook, though I will say, a good source to begin is www.isedb.com or search for directories and start at the top.

Anthony I was referencing to this post, and I was not asking where to find a list of directories. I was asking did anybody submitted to the directories SEObook mentioning, and if anybody did what is their experience.

for example, before this year directories such as
http://www.bluefind.com or
http://www.incrawler.com
did not exist, and today they are both solidly powerful links for a one time fee.

one thing that hurts many directories is that some do not advertise enough to get their deep category pages indexed. if you list on some of those pages you will want to link to them from a different site to get those pages indexed.

one big advantage of small directories over large directories is that you are usually only a few nodes removed from the home page and thus it is likely your links will get indexed.

search engines have no way to definitively determine quality... that is why they rely on the feedback loop links provide them. a link 15 nodes deep in http://www.DMOZ.org will likely not be worth more than (or even as much as) a link one or two nodes removed from the home page of http://www.linkopedia.com or http://www.ajdee.com

Anthony I was referencing to this post, and I was not asking where to find a list of directories. I was asking did anybody submitted to the directories SEObook mentioning, and if anybody did what is their experience.

just my opinion here...I do not submit to directories usually thinking on a "per link" basis, but more on a "total effect" type line of thinking.

I can tell you that if you do many it stands a good chance to be effective. if you only do one or two likely it will not. I also don't usually pass stuff out to others that I do not also do myself.